Jerez Oct 10-13

[bmwbadboy]

Excellent 4 days, sunshine all the way, very pleased to meet more forum members in person (Alex, baz, bmwbadboy)

Videos and photos to come.

ps.
Alex didn't manage to get knee down unfortunately

 

[bmwbadboy]

 

[alex]

Alex didn't manage to get knee down unfortunately

Lol, that's your takeaway point?!


- Alex

 

[alex]

And didn't you mean bananaman? Meeting yourself would be odd [emoji14]

- Alex

 

[bmwbadboy]

And didn't you mean bananaman? Meeting yourself would be odd [emoji14]

- Alex

Oh yeah, meant him but typed something else :torn:

2:01 is a great achievement on this track, considering you're not doing trackdays regularly enough to practice.

 

[alex]

Yeah, I am happy to have knocked 3+ seconds off my best. (EDIT: I thought it was 5 but found a 2:04 in my previous data, I don't have the data for the 2:01.2 cause I think I left the memory stick on the bike ffs)



Shame I need another 5seconds next time needed for group 3!

Pleased you made your 1:56 flat goal.

- Alex

 

[bmwbadboy]

To be honest, after watching it on video I'm a bit disappointing. Only managed to hit 2 apexes of 13.

I guess I need to come back, I think can easily do sub 1:53, if I ride properly.

1:56:042 lap

 

[alex]

Epic levels of TC off of T5!

 

[bmwbadboy]

Epic levels of TC off of T5!

It was my worst line unfortunately.

 

[Gobert]

Turn 5 is awesome..................

 

[bananaman]

And didn't you mean bananaman? Meeting yourself would be odd [emoji14]

- Alex

:bananahuge:

 

[bmwbadboy]

Turn 5 is awesome..................

Fully agree. Best turn of the track IMO

 

[alex]

Another great trip to Jerez and it's definitely a favourite for bikes, it just flows so nicely, and there's a decent variation of corner. It's perfect for learning your craft on.
My main issue in riding is that I don't trust the front enough. Consequently I don't throw it in at high enough speed, my steering efforts are too slow and too early. This track will punish that...so I have to learn to do better...the more trips the better to this fantastic track as far as I am concerned.

Here's @Bananaman on his RSV4 and Phil on his CBR1000RR SP2 (I work with Phil).





There's a lot to learn just from the stills let alone the hours of video I have.

Phil and B-man put a lot of time into either dragging or chasing me around to help me go quicker. It's very much appreciated.
In the video below I was behind B-man and although he was distant by eye I was catching on lap 2 which helped with the encouragement to finish strongly. The 2D GPS Laptrigger briefly lit up the *fastest lap* light on the dash (obscured by the rear camera overlay) as I entered the last turn on lap 2...and then it went out...so I thought I'd lost it... (fastest at that point was the 2:01.70 on the dash at the start)







Now to save up to go back...

Oh and a word on the VO2's. They just work. They stick like **** to a blanket, last a long time and are easier to manage.

 

[bananaman]

Another great trip to Jerez and it's definitely a favourite for bikes, it just flows so nicely, and there's a decent variation of corner. It's perfect for learning your craft on.
My main issue in riding is that I don't trust the front enough. Consequently I don't throw it in at high enough speed, my steering efforts are too slow and too early. This track will punish that...so I have to learn to do better...the more trips the better to this fantastic track as far as I am concerned.

Here's @Bananaman on his RSV4 and Phil on his CBR1000RR SP2 (I work with Phil).

There's a lot to learn just from the stills let alone the hours of video I have.

Phil and B-man put a lot of time into either dragging or chasing me around to help me go quicker. It's very much appreciated.
In the video below I was behind B-man and although he was distant by eye I was catching on lap 2 which helped with the encouragement to finish strongly. The 2D GPS Laptrigger briefly lit up the *fastest lap* light on the dash (obscured by the rear camera overlay) as I entered the last turn on lap 2...and then it went out...so I thought I'd lost it... (fastest at that point was the 2:01.70 on the dash at the start)


Now to save up to go back...

Oh and a word on the VO2's. They just work. They stick like **** to a blanket, last a long time and are easier to manage.

Awesome 4 days ! Good riding, good company and good food. Oh, AND GOOD BEER ! Have some footage to sort out when I get time, unfortunately only rear, took the cameras but forgot the cases doh !! Also didn't realise you could only get the pics on the day. Looking at that vid, you're terminal speed at the end of the straights was 20 mph over mine, do miss that extra power I must admit. 2:00:.50, was gutted not to break the 2 minutes on the Sunday but this ol timer was shattered by then lol

 

[Monners]

Love the vid, makes me really want to get back there. Its a track I like but have never managed to really master. Out of interest; springs make a really big difference here and especially if you are not going in hard enough like you mention. If the spring is too stiff and you are not going in very hard the bike will not turn fast enough. Its especially noticeable on the fast left handers turns four and eight because you end up taking ages for the bike to line up for the exit and it really hits your laptimes hard. I had it happening to me earlier in the year when we went because I was new to the BMW and not confirdent enough for the springs recommended by the fast Superstock guys. I went down from a 10.5 to a 10 which I would have actually gone with myself anyhow to start with and it knocked a shed load of time off,
I can't wait to have a go at the track now I'm more confident.

 

[bmwbadboy]

@alex great video! I wish you showed me it on Saturday, maybe I would hit more of those pesky apexes lol.

You just need to increase the pace and be more aggressive on breaks, can easily go sub 2 there.

 

[bananaman]

My headache was mainly 2&9. Turn 2 shown isn't right, I'm sure 2 tightened up more than that before getting on it for 3?? Making turn 2 properly enabled better flow through turn 3 which increased speed/accuracy for turn 4. Also firing out of 8 left me facing away from turn 9 at turn in lol. My excuse is I lost a lot of the 1st day due to a flat battery, roll on next time !! @ bmwbadboy, easy sub 2? maybe when you've already done it haha !

 

[alex]

Love the vid, makes me really want to get back there. Its a track I like but have never managed to really master. Out of interest; springs make a really big difference here and especially if you are not going in hard enough like you mention. If the spring is too stiff and you are not going in very hard the bike will not turn fast enough. Its especially noticeable on the fast left handers turns four and eight because you end up taking ages for the bike to line up for the exit and it really hits your laptimes hard. I had it happening to me earlier in the year when we went because I was new to the BMW and not confirdent enough for the springs recommended by the fast Superstock guys. I went down from a 10.5 to a 10 which I would have actually gone with myself anyhow to start with and it knocked a shed load of time off,
I can't wait to have a go at the track now I'm more confident.

Yes. In fact I am looking up the tools needed to affect 2 changes. Changing springs and change the air gap. (K911's of course would make this easier )

Setup: Ohlins NIX30 with 10+10.5Nm (10.25Nm springs)
Air Gap: Unknown
Preload: 11 turns
Comp: 10 from max
Reb: 12 from max

My weight is 95kg in kit (at least).

So, It needs to be more compliant in the turns, its too stiff imo. Using too much compression and rebound imo.
But, under braking I smash the forks flat with anything less (it's a reason I don't really attack the braking zones).

Balancing the requirements is always the game.

I was thinking it has to be stiffer springs and reducing the preload/compression requirements but that would seem to exacerbate the issue mid turn.

Now I'm looking at the airgap.
Air gap / oil height, for those that want to know, the gap from the top of the damping oil to the top of the forks, typically a 100mm travel fork will have a 120mm, or thereabouts gap. As the fork compresses the air is forced into a smaller space. During the last 10mm or so of fork travel the air pressure adds enough additional force to the spring rate allow the rider to run a softer spring or damping set-up without bottoming the fork under severe braking or cornering loads.

So what I am thinking is that a 10-20mm reduction in the existing air gap, may better support the breaking and allow the compression/preload stiffness / extension to come down and therefore make the turns easier.

It's what I am going to talk to Perry about anyway...

 

[Monners]

I've found the BMW is quite a tricky beast to get setup right and it can be very difficult when it's not right for a particular track. I'm changing springs almost every day now based on data, it takes me ten minutes and gives way better results than fiddling with the other knobs which are basically determined by the right spring anyhow.

Jerez in particular is a track where you should try hard to keep it as soft as possible for the flowing corners with just enough support for corner one so I dont think you should go stiffer springs than that at Jerez. You will probably find that those springs are just right for Donnington GP or Cadwell Park where you ideally need stiffer springs than places like Donnington National or Jerez. You're heavier than me but you're a bit slower so 10.25 should be plenty stiff enough, I would guess that you would even want less preload. Because you are talking about hesitating and not going into corners hard enough but at the same time saying you are bottoming out 10.25 springs with 11mm of preload I have warning bells that something is not clear with the measurements you have.

I dont have oil in the Mupo CSP but for me playing with the oil gap is something you do when you have the other parts reliably setup for the conditions and you want to fine tune the setup.

- Springs are 100% the first thing to change until you are getting close to full travel. Preload of 5-10mm is where I try to keep my window, outside of which I change springs.
- Once you have full travel fine tune the compression as needed
- Rebound adjusts according to the spring and preload to calm down or quicken the bike popping back up.


-Are you just using a cable tie to determine fork movement? I've been checking this method against my data and it's completely unreliable. The best way other than actual pot sensors is to put a camera on the bike looking at the forks. I know that suspension guys need something to work with but this and static measurements are near useless when you test them for accuracy against data.

-What happens with it mid turn since that is a different situation that might shed light on your geometry. One of my things to work on now is to look at the mid corner data to see how the bike attitude and compression changes and to tune it a bit with the preload. This is basically the dynamic side to what you are trying to achieve with static SAG and I think will be much more useful but more work to analyse.

 

[alex]

Cable tie, fork sensor, video. Got em all.