Jerez Oct 10-13

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This is it during decent braking. I have to admit it doesn't happen enough but clearly it's possible.
Bottom is 8mm above the casting.

pretty much full travel.jpg

This is mid T6 before picking up the throttle.

t6 travel.jpg

I'm going to get a trace of the suspension movement from the 2D...

Don't forget this is where I am at today with the suspension.
Perry put in these settings.

34mm sag
Preload: 6 turns
Compression: 16 from max
Rebound: 13 from max
 
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I've found the BMW is quite a tricky beast to get setup right and it can be very difficult when it's not right for a particular track. I'm changing springs almost every day now based on data, it takes me ten minutes and gives way better results than fiddling with the other knobs which are basically determined by the right spring anyhow.

Jerez in particular is a track where you should try hard to keep it as soft as possible for the flowing corners with just enough support for corner one so I dont think you should go stiffer springs than that at Jerez. You will probably find that those springs are just right for Donnington GP or Cadwell Park where you ideally need stiffer springs than places like Donnington National or Jerez. You're heavier than me but you're a bit slower so 10.25 should be plenty stiff enough, I would guess that you would even want less preload. Because you are talking about hesitating and not going into corners hard enough but at the same time saying you are bottoming out 10.25 springs with 11mm of preload I have warning bells that something is not clear with the measurements you have.

I dont have oil in the Mupo CSP but for me playing with the oil gap is something you do when you have the other parts reliably setup for the conditions and you want to fine tune the setup.

- Springs are 100% the first thing to change until you are getting close to full travel. Preload of 5-10mm is where I try to keep my window, outside of which I change springs.
- Once you have full travel fine tune the compression as needed
- Rebound adjusts according to the spring and preload to calm down or quicken the bike popping back up.


-Are you just using a cable tie to determine fork movement? I've been checking this method against my data and it's completely unreliable. The best way other than actual pot sensors is to put a camera on the bike looking at the forks. I know that suspension guys need something to work with but this and static measurements are near useless when you test them for accuracy against data.

-What happens with it mid turn since that is a different situation that might shed light on your geometry. One of my things to work on now is to look at the mid corner data to see how the bike attitude and compression changes and to tune it a bit with the preload. This is basically the dynamic side to what you are trying to achieve with static SAG and I think will be much more useful but more work to analyse.


My humble opinion that even at 1:56 pace you don't need most of that.

I'm as Alex have Ohlins 10/10.5 springs at around 90kg suited. No issues with travel or inadequate softness for the flowing corners whatsoever.

My limited experience and gut feeling tells me that event at 1:53 you don't need most of that, as if I look at my riding, if I hit all the apexes and had my eyes fully focused on right sides of the track I would be there.
At no time during 4 days I can say that the suspension did something that I didn't expect or asked for. Obviously TC and electronics help a lot as can be heard from the video, but we all have that as default.

Changing springs is fun, but without any quantifiable data, it's hard to say that it gives any improvement over the zip tie.

I'm not saying that good "base" suspension worthless, on opposite, everyone who is serious about track time must have that. What I'm trying to say that any fine tuning are not warranted unless the required pace is there.
 
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Alex is here

NGJ_1829.jpg
 
I think it's just tweaking. Nothing is fundamentally wrong. I just want to be able to smash the brakes on and keep the suspension in a good place for cornering. The bike runs wide very easily IMO.

It could all be technique...
 
Oh and a word on the VO2's. They just work. They stick like **** to a blanket, last a long time and are easier to manage.

How did you find the front V02 and which compound did you go for?

I've tried the rear V02's with a Conti front this year and it seemed to work ok. From what I've read, the new front V02 is meant to be better?
 
How did you find the front V02 and which compound did you go for?

I've tried the rear V02's with a Conti front this year and it seemed to work ok. From what I've read, the new front V02 is meant to be better?
Medium
Front is the best bit.
Drive grip seems their only weakness.

- Alex
 
I saw it on the dash.
54's mainly.
Still pretty good. If he gained 20seconds in a session he'd still have needed to start close to overtake.

- Alex
 
Suspension travel for what it's worth. 115mm seems to be the max for the position of the 2D sensor based on the data.

Screenshot 2019-10-15 at 23.15.11.jpg
 
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I'm not disagreeing with you for a moment. Not many people want to look at numbers and squiggly lines and thats fine. The point isn't to make adjustments because the bike requires them to make it possible to go faster; you just need a better rider to do that. Rossi could probably do 1'50'' around Jerez on a TMax. The point is to have the bike help to show you how to ride it faster rather than fighting against what you are trying to do. If you can do the same lap times with much less effort then you have all that effort available to go faster still. Then the cycle just repeats again to make the next jump.

I've always maintained that getting faster is 70% rider, 20% setup and 10% money. That 70% rider input will get you to plenty good enough laptimes for most. Get it setup well and you'll knock another couple of seconds off and buy a fresh set of tyres and some shiny parts to get on the podium!
 
Don't forget that's 114.9mm of travel on the 2D sensor for *the position it is on, on my bike* the total travel is 124mm according to what I got from HM Racing/Perry

Screenshot 2019-10-15 at 23.49.37.png
 
You can pretty much ignore that 114.9 lap as its an outlier plus it's not one of your faster laps as well. I would definitely be going down to 10 springs since you are only using around 110mm of travel.

To reiterate what I was saying in the last post: the heroic way to progress would be to brake harder and deeper but thats easier said than done for many people. By lowering the spring rate it gives me a helping hand to get the forks compressed and the bike will turn better. You'll then have the confidence to go faster and harder and the next step is to go back to the stiffer spring rates because you have learnt to push it harder.
 
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Springs

...I would definitely be going down to 10 springs since you are only using around 110mm of travel... the heroic way to progress would be to brake harder and deeper but thats easier said than done for many people. By lowering the spring rate it gives me a helping hand to get the forks compressed and the bike will turn better. You'll then have the confidence to go faster and harder and the next step is to go back to the stiffer spring rates because you have learnt to push it harder.

This is very good advice.
 
Hmmm I am sat here, looking through the data and wondering if the zip tie is selling me a dummy. Or if the 2D is off...
Could the tie be slipping on bumps?
Could the 2D need resetting via a DDC CALIB? (Despite not having DDC)

What's the stanchion size? 43mm? Time to get a better zip tie.
https://store.ktechsuspension.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=&q=Indicator

Not a lot is making sense, for instance, harking back to when it was more of an issue. I know how it felt, I could feel bumping through the bars on aggressive stops. Can I find data to support that, hell no, was the ziptie always near to or at the bottom, yes.
I need to improve the lab conditions and take out some variables.
 

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