Speeding Legal Question ?

[soofsayer]

So I got a letter last week asking if I was the rider of the demo bike and it was alleged that I was doing 50 in a 40. I responded to the letter saying I was the rider at the time.

Today I get a letter offering me a speed awareness or fine or court. No evidence or picture, nothing.

On option 3: Attendance at Court the letter states "you have the right to have your case heard at Court if you do not agree with the evidence that has been given to you."

I rang up the York traffic bureau and politely asked to see the evidence because I genuinely believe I was not speeding at the time. The reply was that I would only get to see the evidence against me if I went to court.

I am not trying to get out of a speeding fine or course having received both in the past, but I clearly remember the 'speeding' camera incident and that I was performing an overtake of a car going slowly in a 40 as I was about to go into a national speed limit. I looked down at the speedo when I saw the wombles with their tripod and it was showing 45 (bearing in mind these are calibrated to read over the real speed) so 50 is not something I believe to be true.

Regardless of if I am in the right or not on the speeding question, how is it legally ok to only offer someone the opportunity to defend their position and withhold the evidence against them until they agree to appear at court? Surely any evidence against me should be made available so I can make an informed decision?

In the old days you'd get a photograph at the very least. What am I missing?

 

[jasezxr]

Im not the right person to answer this imo, But i wouldnt admit i was riding straight away. Did you recieve the speeding fine within 2 weeks of test riding the demo bike? Does the time coincide with the time you were actually on the bike?
I would also request some proof and proof of when the speed camera was last calibrated.

 

[alex]

If they know its a demo bike they shouldn't be so surprised you'd want evidence.

But this isn't the first time I've heard they won't give anything till you go to court.

Maybe worth contacting the specialist lawyers...


- Sent from Mobile

 

[soofsayer]

Its a load of bollock quite frankly. How can I choose to disagree with the evidence and choose to go to court if they wont provide the evidence? The letter clearly states that.

 

[Toan the Moan]

I'd just do the speed awareness. There is nothing Just about British Justice

 

[Chris b]

You are better heading off to the pepipoo website where you will get a good professional reply to this.

 

[stuartb]

Sounds odd that Soof, so (they say) you were speeding but they won't provide evidence unless you go to court... that is mighty odd in my book.

Sorry I can't help just thought I had to give my two bob's worth..professional advice would be good.


Stuart

 

[combo41]

Problem is, speed awareness course is a 1 time offer, you use it next time it's straight to points.

Depending on how certain you are I'd go to court.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FreudianSlip]

My buddy got done in his X5 recently on the M180 (tbh, he was lucky to get caught at the speed he was caught at and not the speed he was doing 2 mins before). Mr policeman sent him a letter with (I think) an enclosed picture of the front of his car, clearly showing his number plate, his face and the speed/date/time. He was offered the same choice - he took the speed awareness course.

He didn't request the evidence (to the best of my knowledge) but even if he did, he didn't have to go to court to make his decision.

 

[soofsayer]

My buddy got done in his X5 recently on the M180 (tbh, he was lucky to get caught at the speed he was caught at and not the speed he was doing 2 mins before). Mr policeman sent him a letter with (I think) an enclosed picture of the front of his car, clearly showing his number plate, his face and the speed/date/time. He was offered the same choice - he took the speed awareness course.

He didn't request the evidence (to the best of my knowledge) but even if he did, he didn't have to go to court to make his decision.

The problem I have is that they have provided no evidence at all. Only thing they have provided is a NIP saying that such a registration was caught doing 50 at such a time on such a road. I have admitted I was the rider at the time.

 

[Flyingscotsman]

If you are certain you weren't exceeding 40 then go to court otherwise I would do the course. For court to convict they just need to prove you were above the speed limit. I recall reading recently that the old advice of +10% +1 is now advisory & some areas can choose to prosecute on +1 above limit.

 

[Benny130]

You can only ask for evidence to confirm the identity of the driver / rider. I would be very careful passing up the oppurtunity of a speed awareness and no points to try to find a loophole and contesting in court. Your chances of success are small and the fine goes up!! Pepipoo is definately the plase to post.

 

[soofsayer]

Yes I have asked the question on pepipoo and got several responses, basically I'm stuffed despite the poor grammar/wording. I still find it bizarre that no evidence is supplied so you either take a gamble and go to court or plead guilty to an alledged offence.

I know what my speed was at the time but do I think I can win (or have the time) to go through a court and argue with expert CPS witnesses who make their living on the prosecution side of the fence? My word against theirs, I can't prove I wasnt doing the speed they say, I will lose every time I have no doubt.

I will take the SAC. I did one several years ago and quite frankly it looked like, and is, a money making scheme. I fundamentally disagree with the notion that speed kills, poor driver skills and ignorance kill. If the police were serious about road safety why dont they make reassesment compulsory every few years after the age of 60? I know a lot of elderly drivers that cant drive at legal speed limits, cannot perform an emergency stop, and cant read a numberplate from a few feet away. A close relative of mine crashed last year because he stamped on the accelerator instead of the brake pedal in a car park because he is too invalid to know what his feet are doing. Another is virtually blind in one eye and very poor vision in the other, was referred for an eye examination by his GP, the optician said due to his very poor sight he was likely to have his licence revoked, but the DVLA sent his licence back and gave him another 3 years! Another went around the leeds one way inner ring road the wrong way because of not being able to see the signs. The police and DVLA do nothing about stopping this poor driving and the result is people do get killed:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4331236/Driver-killed-three-year-old-girl-jailed.html

http://www.kentlive.news/an-elderly...coffee-crash/story-30223592-detail/story.html

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/driver-85-jailed-after-killing-8333569

http://www.southwalesguardian.co.uk...o_killed_wife_and_injured_two_women_in_crash/

Anyway thats my little rant over with for today .

 

[Toan the Moan]

If I got a speeding ticket like yours I'd take it on the chin and think how lucky I have been to get away with speeding for so long


No I wouldn't I whinge and moan about it alot feel victimised and then think only 50 how many times have I actually been speeding and not got caught

 

[Oli]

Fully agree with you Soof!

Also agree with your decision to take the speed awareness course and keep a clean licence, as if it goes to a magistrate court and you lost you could very well get more than 3 points

 

[Chris b]

If you are certain you weren't exceeding 40 then go to court otherwise I would do the course. For court to convict they just need to prove you were above the speed limit. I recall reading recently that the old advice of +10% +1 is now advisory & some areas can choose to prosecute on +1 above limit.

there is no way that you would be prosecuted in court if you were 1 over the limit, if this were the case every vehicle would have to undergo calibrations on a very regular basis which is virtually impossible.

 

[DoubleRDurham]

If you are certain you weren't exceeding 40 then go to court otherwise I would do the course. For court to convict they just need to prove you were above the speed limit. I recall reading recently that the old advice of +10% +1 is now advisory & some areas can choose to prosecute on +1 above limit.

It's always been advisory - the 10% +2 (I think it was once +1 but that changed a while back) was only guidance from ACPO on where they thought prosecution should start. Legally though it had no standing as it wasn't written into statute, but was just used a suggested threshold.

You can of course, technically, be prosecuted for doing 30.0000001 MPH if your speed could be accurately enough recorded and demonstrated as such, and people do get prosecuted for doing only a couple of MPH over the limit or are given SACs in lieu of prosecution.

 

[DoubleRDurham]

there is no way that you would be prosecuted in court if you were 1 over the limit, if this were the case every vehicle would have to undergo calibrations on a very regular basis which is virtually impossible.

You can, and people are prosecuted for it. Speedos would not need calibration as manufacturers all build in a margin of over-reading error, often as much as 10%. In most cases as a result, if someone was caught speeding at 31MPH, their speedometer would likely be displaying 33-34MPH.

 

[Oli]

You can, and people are prosecuted for it. Speedos would not need calibration as manufacturers all build in a margin of over-reading error, often as much as 10%. In most cases as a result, if someone was caught speeding at 31MPH, their speedometer would likely be displaying 33-34MPH.

Quite right, for example my 15 RR over reads by 8 % confirmed on a Dyno.

 

[Chris b]

You can, and people are prosecuted for it. Speedos would not need calibration as manufacturers all build in a margin of over-reading error, often as much as 10%. In most cases as a result, if someone was caught speeding at 31MPH, their speedometer would likely be displaying 33-34MPH.

Oh right would be good to see actual proof of these prosecutions for being 1 mph over the limit.not forgetting that there are lots of older cars with not just over reading but also under reading. Not all vehicles have electronic speedos, i.e. Some are still using cables and if you got prosecuted for being 1 mph over the limit then I would strongly suggest to get a new lawyer