Speeding Legal Question ?

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Missed this thread as I was in France last week.

As a matter of law, there is no right to see the evidence against you until a not guilty plea has been entered in court. For 'either way offences' (triable summarily or under indictment) there is a right to see the evidence before choosing the mode of trial, but that is not relevant to summary only offences such as speeding.

The standard advice offered on PePiPoo is to request photos to help identify the driver before naming yourself as the driver - whilst there is no obligation on the police to do so, they are far more likely to send photos for that purpose. Once you have named yourself as the driver, getting the photos without sacrificing the option of a course or fixed penalty is often not possible.
The police will generally refuse to disclose any evidence relating to an active criminal case under the exemptions in the FoIA. Even if they did not, the time limits for supplying information under the FoIA mean that the options for a course or fixed penalty would have expired before you get the photos.

Laser speed meters are generally capable of operating at a range of up to 1000 metres - it is common to have been pinged well before seeing the van. It is often not possible for the operator to form a meaningful opinion of excess speed at such distances, to corroborate with the device, but the courts tend to be reluctant to concern themselves with such issues.
Laser speed meters can produce erroneous readings (somewhere I have a video of a police device operated by a police operator, recording a speed against a stationary bike as a van drove past), but proving that it was unreliable on the occasion you were 'caught' can be difficult, and more to the point, very expensive if you fail.
 
Have you also checked the 14 day rule. They must attempt to identify within 14 days of the offence. This means they must have contacted the keeper (assume dealer in this case) within 14 days. Regardless of the above write back stating it was a demo bike and you want to ensure it was you on that particular day and time as you cannot be certain it was you. You have no control over who the keeper (dealer) allows to ride it and when, especially as it is a demo and a photo would allow you to confirm beyond all reasonable doubt it was you allowing them to take action.


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I'm pretty sure , if they had proof they would have shown you. I think they're bluffing 🙄
 
Have you also checked the 14 day rule. They must attempt to identify within 14 days of the offence. This means they must have contacted the keeper (assume dealer in this case) within 14 days.

Close. Under section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (subject to the exceptions provided in sections 1 and 2) they must serve a NIP on the driver or the RK within 14 days, or else the driver cannot be convicted of the speeding offence. This is presumed to have been complied with unless the contrary is proven. This has no bearing on the obligation to name the driver under s. 172 RTA 1988.


Regardless of the above write back stating it was a demo bike and you want to ensure it was you on that particular day and time as you cannot be certain it was you. You have no control over who the keeper (dealer) allows to ride it and when, especially as it is a demo and a photo would allow you to confirm beyond all reasonable doubt it was you allowing them to take action.

As soof has already responded to the s. 172 requirement naming himself as the driver, I would say that it is a bit late to think about playing games with identifying the driver.

edit as regards Ryan's comments about SteveW being a little naive - I definitely wouldn't have been so subtle
 
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I'm fairly thick skinned so I'm not that worried to be honest about Ryan's comments. He obviously knows everything about it.
 
Speeding

I don't profess to know everything as I'm not a legal professional. However I do know enough not to be so foolish and even consider that the Police would randomly send an individual a NIP with no evidence to back up a prosecution, let alone bluff. That's simply not how the legal system works and defies common sense.
 
Easy lads.. nothing wrong with opinions from all sides..though my first thought is with Ryan. I would have worded it different mind you..I'd say your nuts thinking that.........lolol. just kidding mate.. if we can't agree we at least can have a chuckle over it... sorry Soof ! 😀

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1/ speed cameras are set to flash at 10% of the speed of the road. I.e. 30 mph camera flashes 33mph
50 mph camera flashes 55 mph. This is so in court they have already allowed for differences between manufacturers and ageing vehicles.

As a general rule, enforcement (and automatic speed cameras) starts at the ACPO guideline of 10% +2mph over the limit - e.g. 35mph in a 30mph limit, 46mph in a 40mph limit, 57mph in a 50mph limit, etc.

2/ When over taking and note this , only when over taking the law states that this operation should be done as quickly and as safely as possible ( not word for word but almost ) thus resulting in no speed limit for over taking. It's a loop hole from the law set in the 1700,s and one that saw me keep my licence in 2015 of which I'm willing to give the court papers if u need ??

As the first speed limit was not introduced until 1861, I am struggling to see how there was a loophole from law set in the 1700s, or how the relevant sections of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 could possibly be interpreted in such a manner. Also, Wilkinsons has no mention of any such loophole.

The Highway Code presumably states that overtaking in the face of oncoming traffic should be done as quickly and safely as possible, but the Highway Code is not the law, and does not override the actual law.
 
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As a general rule, enforcement (and automatic speed cameras) starts at the ACPO guideline of 10% +2mph over the limit - e.g. 35mph in a 30mph limit, 46mph in a 40mph limit, 57mph in a 50mph limit, etc.

I'm struggling to see how ACPO could set a guideline for anything as they ceased to exist in 2015 in England and ACPOS as far back as 2013 in Scotland.

Wtf do I know I'm only a builder.

JimmyMac
 
ACPO was replaced by the NPCC, but the guidelines remain the same, and are almost invariably followed.

If Jay has some obscure case law that supports his assertions, I'd be more than happy to read it, and happier still to be wrong, but I am almost certain that it merely enable me to point out in greater detail why he is wrong.

If he wants a willy waving contest, I'm pretty sure that the people I know, the High Court appeals I've been involved in, my educational background and the websites I've run would trump his "my missus' mate works for the council"
 
So the gist of your argument is that you are right because you claim to be willing to bet your bike on it. And I'm a joker because I recognise that you're wrong. And if I'm not willing to bet my bike against yours, I must therefore be wrong.
Lets pretend for a moment that your offer to bet your bike against mine is serious, and that I'm immature enough to play your silly games - how is the winner decided. It is pretty obvious that you will insist that you are correct, regardless of what evidence and arguments are presented.

I have little doubt that you are an expert in Koi Carp. I would usually then ask what that's got to do with the price of fish, although in this case I would question what relevance it has to knowing about road traffic law and procedures.

If you have court papers that provide an authority for your assertion that overtaking provides a defence to exceeding the speed limit, please show us. As I have already indicated, I would love to be proven wrong on this point. I would love to be able to exceed the speed limit with impunity when overtaking. We all would. That would be worth far more to me than being shown to be right on an internet forum.

You seem to have difficulty in distinguishing between contradictive and qualified statements, and whether "invariably" can be used to refer to a single incident.

I do not claim to know everything about road traffic law, but I would be very surprised if anyone here (including ex-plod) knows more about it than me, not because I'm somehow omniscient, but because of the time and effort I have spent studying and dealing with it. I would be even more surprised if someone who struggles to string a coherent sentence together, and justifies his arguments with a challenge to bet my bike or I must be wrong, knows more than me, but as I have said, feel free to prove me wrong by posting the authority for your assertion.

If we're going to get nit-picky, and it seems that we are, I never accused you of being a liar. I contradicted what you wrote, and by necessary implication accused you of being wrong, but I never accused you of lying. The difference is whether you believe that what you are saying is the truth. That distinction is essentially the same (another qualified statement) as mens rea in criminal law - but if you knew about law, you would know that already.

Clearly you are upset about being contradicted. The simplest solution is not to post things that are incorrect (whether you believed them to be correct or otherwise). One of the unwritten rules of arguments is that if you are going to make a controversial statement (e.g. that the law allows you t exceed the speed limit in order to overtake), you should be prepared and able to back up your assertions with evidence (other than I know I'm right and if you aren't willing to search for my address, ride to my house and bet your bike, you are wrong). You've repeatedly stated that you have court papers which prove your point - although you seem to be relying on your claim that you have the papers, rather than the papers themselves. I'm still waiting.

Some people think that their opinions and beliefs are as valid as anybody else's and that there is some overarching right to freedom of speech which allows them to spout whatever they want, and prohibits others from contradicting them. They aren't and there isn't. When it comes to opinions, there is not always a right and a wrong. When it comes to purported facts, there usually is. When those purported facts constitute seriously bad advice that could lead to somebody losing their licence, expect to be corrected.
 
Let's keep this dispute respectful guys ...
Jay, Andy wasn't calling you a liar, it's just a disagreement.

Oli
 
Hmmmm. After carefully reading through both sides of the argument, I have just the one question...

...anyone know where I can get a jacket like this?

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