Gen 4 Suspension

[alex]

Lets all put the pitchforks down. The negative threads are really grating.

You're a light rider just get it sprung for your weight, like you should any bike, and then see where you're at.
Japanese bikes come with less stiff springs. BMW use firmer ones.

Why you would go to the expense of cartridges and shocks before the cheaper option of springs is beyond me.

It surely would be nice if all the manufacturers supplied a selection of springs with the bike and fit the ones suitable for the rider/role at the time of delivery/service. But I expect they don't due to litigation risks (safer to do nothing and have everything the same).

So it's on you to tailor it to you. Baz will have his in with MCT soon, because he's proactive about these things, hopefully we'll find out if any off the shelf springs are a straight swap.

 

[Richinio]

Lets all put the pitchforks down. The negative threads are really grating.

You're a light rider just get it sprung for your weight, like you should any bike, and then see where you're at.
Japanese bikes come with less stiff springs. BMW use firmer ones.

Why you would go to the expense of cartridges and shocks before the cheaper option of springs is beyond me.

It surely would be nice if all the manufacturers supplied a selection of springs with the bike and fit the ones suitable for the rider/role at the time of delivery/service. But I expect they don't due to litigation risks (safer to do nothing and have everything the same).

So it's on you to tailor it to you. Baz will have his in with MCT soon, because he's proactive about these things, hopefully we'll find out if any off the shelf springs are a straight swap.

That response is a bit over the top and unnecessarily antagonistic!

I was just considering and discussing options. Not particularly negative and no pitch forks involved.

Maybe I will try lighter springs. I'd like to be well informed before making a decision - that's why forums like this are useful.

 

[ampj8]

Also consider that if you push it at the race track you might not need to do anything with the springs at all. Depends on your type of riding and what is more that you do with it.

If mainly road yes I concur that re spring is economically a better decision and you keep the best of both worlds.

The DDC for road use (rain, road, dynamic and even race) is simply very good IMO.

The other day I put rain but was a dry day riding in the city at slow speeds. It was more comfortable than road. Need to compare this vs. my race pro 1 with all adjustments set to 1. But reckon it might be softer (rain).





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[Gobert]

I know it's not a Gen 4, but my Gen 3 was improved so much by simply changing the fork springs / air gap. The Gen 3 DDC works to a decent level imho and from what I've read, the Gen 4 DDC is meant to be much better.(at just under 12 stone, I was on the light side for the standard kit)

 

[Richinio]

I know it's not a Gen 4, but my Gen 3 was improved so much by simply changing the fork springs / air gap. The Gen 3 DDC works to a decent level imho and from what I've read, the Gen 4 DDC is meant to be much better.(at just under 12 stone, I was on the light side for the standard kit)

That's really interesting. Do you know what your before and after spring rates were? I am curious as to how big a change was made and how much difference it made to ride quality....

 

[alex]

Ditto - my Gen3 DDC was respung for me by MCT and they fitted a new preload seat. Worked perfectly.
I only swapped to Ohlins cause it was going for £1200 for forks and shock...which was a bargain.

 

[Gobert]

That's really interesting. Do you know what your before and after spring rates were? I am curious as to how big a change was made and how much difference it made to ride quality....

MCT did mine with 10nm springs and a 100mm air gap - standard is 90mm one leg, 85mm the other. Standard springs are different in each leg - 9.5 and 11.25 seems to ring a bell? I also had the preload tube mod done.

 

[alex]

MCT did mine with 10nm springs and a 100mm air gap - standard is 90mm one leg, 85mm the other. Standard springs are different in each leg - 9.5 and 11.25 seems to ring a bell? I also had the preload tube mod done.

Snap

 

[oldwobbler]

Lets all put the pitchforks down. The negative threads are really grating.

You're a light rider just get it sprung for your weight, like you should any bike, and then see where you're at.
Japanese bikes come with less stiff springs. BMW use firmer ones.

Why you would go to the expense of cartridges and shocks before the cheaper option of springs is beyond me.

It surely would be nice if all the manufacturers supplied a selection of springs with the bike and fit the ones suitable for the rider/role at the time of delivery/service. But I expect they don't due to litigation risks (safer to do nothing and have everything the same).

So it's on you to tailor it to you. Baz will have his in with MCT soon, because he's proactive about these things, hopefully we'll find out if any off the shelf springs are a straight swap.

Ok point taken. Not so much pitch forks as frustration. Im 99% happy with the bike. All of the mechanical stuff is right. I'm simply looking for a function in the GUI that was there on the gen 3 and they have removed it on the gen 4. Which is a big hit for me.

 

[baz]

Just a quick update on my visit to MCT.

There is very little available for these bikes yet(including shim stacks).There are no alternative springs at present(they are an unusual diameter-39mm,I believe).
Darren was of the opinion that these Marzocchi units are,in principal,an updated,improved design to the Gen3 Sachs stuff.They also follow the,presumably BMW led,philosophy of not providing enough adjustment for preload.

The front spring rate is 1025nm,the rear spring is 60nm.
He has taken 10mm off the front preload tube which has now given me 30mm(+/- 2mm) static sag with 5 turns in.
He has taken 2mm off the rear retainer.I now have 10mm(+/- 2mm) static sag with 10 turns in.

 

[Richinio]

Just a quick update on my visit to MCT.

There is very little available for these bikes yet(including shim stacks).There are no alternative springs at present(they are an unusual diameter-39mm,I believe).
Darren was of the opinion that these Marzocchi units are,in principal,an updated,improved design to the Gen3 Sachs stuff.They also follow the,presumably BMW led,philosophy of not providing enough adjustment for preload.

The front spring rate is 1025nm,the rear spring is 60nm.
He has taken 10mm off the front preload tube which has now given me 30mm(+/- 2mm) static sag with 5 turns in.
He has taken 2mm off the rear retainer.I now have 10mm(+/- 2mm) static sag with 10 turns in.

That's great information, thankyou.

I don't know what 'taken xmm off front/rear tube/retainer...' means, would you be able to explain?

 

[baz]

Basically,it means that now I have full adjustability of the preload adjusters,as opposed to having no adjustment to reduce preload over stock.
This will then allow the suspension to work closer to its ideal operating range for my weight.

 

[alex]

10.25 is bang on what I need...yay for being clinically obese

 

[r25sti]

10.25 is bang on what I need...yay for being clinically obese

what weight are you to be bang on? im a little puffed up too so hope mines near when it arrives.

 

[alex]

90kg

- Alex

 

[Richinio]

Basically,it means that now I have full adjustability of the preload adjusters,as opposed to having no adjustment to reduce preload over stock.
This will then allow the suspension to work closer to its ideal operating range for my weight.

Ah ok, I get it. I guess the shortening of the preload tubes allows the springs to elongate more.

Have you ridden the bike since the changes?

If so, how does it compare to pre-changes? How heavy are you with gear (if you don't mind me asking!)?

 

[baz]

Ah ok, I get it. I guess the shortening of the preload tubes allows the springs to elongate more.

Have you ridden the bike since the changes?

If so, how does it compare to pre-changes? How heavy are you with gear (if you don't mind me asking!)?

Haven't ridden the bike yet but I will be riding it at Almeria in a couple of weeks.Hopefully,it will be an improvement though the springs are a bit stiff for me at about 80kgs in full gear but there's not much I can do about that at the moment.To be fair,before the mods it performed pretty good at Jerez,so we will see.

 

[Richinio]

Haven't ridden the bike yet but I will be riding it at Almeria in a couple of weeks.Hopefully,it will be an improvement though the springs are a bit stiff for me at about 80kgs in full gear but there's not much I can do about that at the moment.To be fair,before the mods it performed pretty good at Jerez,so we will see.

I'm 78kg in full gear, so your experience should be comparable.

Look forward to your report.....

Do you know if they changed the oil gap in your forks?

 

[baz]

I don't know what the level should be but,it is now 100mm with 7.5w oil.

 

[Gobert]

I don't know what the level should be but,it is now 100mm with 7.5w oil.

That's the air gap he sets the Gen 3 forks to as well - helps reduce the vague feel.