setting up rider sag.

[Alps Pacino]

I have always thought the rear suspension was a bit hard on the rear of my s1000rr so when I was looking through my owners manual there was a section on setting up the sag on the bike. Followed the instructions and worked out that the front was spot on but the rear needed around 3 full turns taking out of the preload.

Was just wondering if anyone else had bothered to set it up and if they had found that it was set up hard as standard for someone around 14 stone?

Haven't been out on it since I adjusted it so cant comment on if it feels any different and if so better or worse.

 

[Godzilla]

I'm not sure there is a thing as 'standard' for sag. Most dealers wont even look at that on a new bike.

 

[Alps Pacino]

Yeah i know that a bike wont come set up to the rider as standard but I was meaning that probably all bikes will come out the factory set up the same and was wondering if other people around the 14 stone mark have found the bike to be pretty hard at the rear from the factory and had to soften it off to get it within range.

It just got me wondering cause I then had a look over my 2005 r1 track bike and I ran out of adjustment and had to wind the preload to fully hard to get the sag anywhere near what it should be on the front. Looks to me like the s1000rr comes pretty hard from the factory especially in comparison with my r1 which looks like I am going to have to get different springs for which would make it a nightmare for someone that's pretty light.

 

[RossHarper]

The S1000 comes from factory set (roughly) for a rider of 85kg. The bike can feel hard for 1000+ miles because the springs are new and need bedding in, I didn't even bother looking at suspension on mine until 2000 miles so I knew springs had settled to how they would be.

I had to have the front springs changed out for a heavier rated one. I had suspension set up by JHS racing. I since then "played" with it because I thought I could make it better and now can't get it back to how it was even with preload in the same place it feels different.

 

[Alps Pacino]

yeah I know what you mean and in the booklet it states 85kg and I am a little heavier than that so was expecting the sag to be somewhere near but was nowhere near what it should be and far to firm. Need it to be dry so I can get and see what it rides like now I have adjusted the rear a little

 

[RossHarper]

I can't set my Rear to perfect because of the position of the locking nut through the rear shock clamp. I have to drop shock to do perfectly and if i'm going to do that I might as well wait til I've got a better shock to fit in.

I do tend to adjust mine alot though. If it's a nice day and i'm out for an A road ride i'll drop to it 15ml, during week for work and back set it to 25ml

 

[Alps Pacino]

I never used to bother setting them up and the first one I did was my 2010 r1 and the difference it made was night and day. Set the sag up and managed to find some setting that some journalist that weighed the same as me had dialled in on a test and they worked a treat. Totally forgot about things like that until I was looking in the manual at standard settings as I was sure mine were set to 6 and came back from a service set to 5 on the forks and noticed th elittle bit on setting sag so thought I would spend half hour doing it. Turned out to be as I thought a bit hard at the rear as it was set up so adjusted it to what the manual recommends which is 20-25 mm so set mine to 20. My thoughts are if it feels worse put it back to how it was.

 

[RossHarper]

I'm a fat barstool so I've always had to change mine on any bike. Correct suspension can have a massive increase on lean angle, corner speed and front end confidence.

 

[Sydney]

Sorry to hijack your thread, but this was next on my "to do" list so hoping someone can help.

I have never done this before but can you confirm under what conditions the initial sag reading is measured?
Is this with the bike on the ground but no weight onthe rear?
Or is this lifting up the rear subframe to make the suspension travel as high as possible? (I think this is how it would be on my Abba Superbike stand).

Sorry if it's a bit of a simple question.

Syd.

 

[oldwobbler]

Syd - I would suggest having a look on You Tube - loads of stuff on there. Try this for starters :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjGgq1z9zbo

 

[RossHarper]

Heres vids of Dave Moss doing setup on a S1000

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIFRtMC4jug
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDtCscrUW5c

 

[Alps Pacino]

just watched the vid and he was saying set up the sag to 35mm from fully unloaded to with rider. BMW manual just says to set it between 20-25 mm from static to rider on which is how I did it. Might give it another dose of looking at at the weekend and see how much sag I have from fully unloaded to with me on it.

 

[Sydney]

Thank for th vids.

The reason for question is that the manual just states "Make sure there is no load on the Motorcycle, remove all items of luggage, if carried."

I am still unsure where the initial reading has come from, with the bike sitting on the ground unloaded, or lifting the rear subframe to fully extend the shock.

If I am being really dunb on this one please feel free to call it as it is.

Syd.

 

[swyatt2170]

just watched the vid and he was saying set up the sag to 35mm from fully unloaded to with rider. BMW manual just says to set it between 20-25 mm from static to rider on which is how I did it. Might give it another dose of looking at at the weekend and see how much sag I have from fully unloaded to with me on it.

Free sag (suspension travel between fully unloaded to resting under its own weight) + rider sag (with the rider in the normal riding position, fully kitted up should be around 35mm (which is what the video is referring to). Free sag on my S1K is around 10mm, so I set preload at 25mm. The BMW manual is only guiding you to measure the rider sag and does not take into consideration free sag, hence the 20 to 25mm.

You should always have some free sag. Once your weight unloads going over bumps, the free sag retains a small amount of travel to stop the suspension from topping out and losing traction. If you've set your preload correctly and the free sag is not between 5 to 10mm, the suggestion is that your spring tension is not right for your weight.

Go with the Dave Moss method. The man knows what he's talking about, and the DVDs I bought from his website are brilliant.

 

[Godzilla]

just watched the vid and he was saying set up the sag to 35mm from fully unloaded to with rider. BMW manual just says to set it between 20-25 mm from static to rider on which is how I did it. Might give it another dose of looking at at the weekend and see how much sag I have from fully unloaded to with me on it.

Are you talking front or rear now?

 

[Alps Pacino]

swyatt. Makes sense and that's what I was thinking when he said 35mm and the manual says 25mm. I will have a check at the weekend again cause I think me mate wants to set his up as well.

Godzilla. Was on about the rear. The front had 10mm of rider sag which is what the manual said was the correct amount so didn't touch it.

 

[Godzilla]

swyatt. Makes sense and that's what I was thinking when he said 35mm and the manual says 25mm. I will have a check at the weekend again cause I think me mate wants to set his up as well.

Godzilla. Was on about the rear. The front had 10mm of rider sag which is what the manual said was the correct amount so didn't touch it.

Is your bike an HP4? Was 10mm a typo? I need to go find my manual, but that seems really small for rider sag at the front.

 

[Alps Pacino]

no 2012 s1000rr not hp4 and manual states 10-15 mm front and 20-25mm rear. Thats the reading from bike on the floor to rider on not from fully unloaded.

 

[Godzilla]

no 2012 s1000rr not hp4 and manual states 10-15 mm front and 20-25mm rear. Thats the reading from bike on the floor to rider on not from fully unloaded.

That makes more sense then lol. Its more important to set the rider sag from the fully unloaded measurement though.

 

[Alps Pacino]

Yeah see that's what was confusing me tbh cause I set my r1 up from fully unloaded but the bmw manual just said the difference should be 10-15 front and 20-25 rear with the measurements taken from bike on ground then with rider on and no mention of fully unloaded measurements.

After watching the vids on this thread I think I will have a look again and see if the measurements are what they should be doing it from fully unloaded like the vids say to do.