Whats going on??

[Ukbmw]

My gen3 has the strangest handling and im not liking it at the moment.
Went for a ride last night on some roads i usually fly down with confidence but i was not at all confident with the bmws handling.
Its all the front end thats the issue.
The rear end is brilliant and gives good feedback and feeling.
But the front end is doing things that feel unnatural.
Its hard to describe but i will try.
I was going round a bend aprox 70mph leant over good and then the bike seems to lean over more even though i havnt asked it to.
Like the front wheel is washing out causing the bike to pitch over.
Now this doesnt happen all the time but it has happened a few times and its fookin scary.
I mean i brace for a fall but it hasnt let go yet.
Im wondering if the rake and trail is something to do with it?
It may be ok on a smooth track but on the road its wandering around on uneven surfaces.
I really want to stick with the bike because the rest of it is very good.
Please tell me other people have felt this sensation on a gen3 too and im not the only one.......

 

[pof]

Tyres? Squared off?

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[r25sti]

front tyre pressure or warn out. what tyres and how old are they.

 

[Ukbmw]

It did it on the original tyres and with the recently fitted new tyres which are sc2 supercorsa.
Tyre pressure is 31 psi in front which ive always run with sc2 in the past

 

[cobo]

Have you always run 31psi in the front? Seems a little low for road use and softer tyres might squirm and fold under load if not hot hot hot ?

 

[cobo]

FWIW maybe check the tread as my Q3?s have developed a weird wear characteristic with the sipes were one side is higher/lower than the other. I run 33/34psi front depending on ambient temps, not sure if that has caused my issue though but worth a look on your tyres.

 

[DCB]

I run full 36 in front, always felt like the front wanted to tuck if anything less

 

[pof]

36 f for me as well. I know a couple of guys that run 38 and 40 on the front but they are very very quick

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[r25sti]

36 front for me too. i tried lower (32/33) but got awful wear and quick wear too. also felt like tucking.

 

[r25sti]

have you a picture of your front wear?

 

[Monners]

Are you sure the front suspension is working ok? Your description sounds exactly like when the seals have gone and the fork oil has leaked out? Also make sure your front axle and pinch bolts are done up properly.

31 is definitely not optimum for the Pirellis / metzellers. I used to use 32psi on the front and at the beginning of the year was struggling for stability around Donnington. The more experienced guys advised 34-35 psi and I knocked two seconds off my lap time straight away just from from stability on hard braking and around the hairpins. They dont usually feel like they are washing out if too low pressure though so not sure it's your problem.

 

[alex]

Do you have the new steering damper fitted?
Have you booked in with a suspension gRage to get it optimised as we recommended earlier in the year with your interest in getting better front end feel?
Pirelli is a soft carcass, deforms easily and needs pressure to support it.

- Alex

 

[Ukbmw]

I havnt had any spare time to do anything with the bike really. Other than fit the sc2 tyres.
Theres no wear on tyres i can guarentee that. They are barely used.
Ive always run 31 front measured cold and 31 track measured hot.
Always had amazing grip and feedback on road and on track but that was on zx10rs and r1s.
Ive never had front end issues at all before buying the bmw.
The front wheel is fitted correctly and was checked when new tyres fitted the other day.
Forks and wheels all move freely and are like new as to be expected at just 2000 road miles.
I honestly think theres nothing wrong with the bike but the only thing a cant guarentee is that the dds is working 100% as i know nothing about it.
I tried it without the steering damper and it wasnt much different so put it back on as the s1000rr 100% needs a damper.
It may be that the extreme rake and trail is just not suitable for me and my riding style.
It makes the bike easy to change direction granted but you loose stability that ive been used to on my zx10r.
Ive been researching how i can achieve a better trail measurement but its very complicated coz if i raise the front and lower the rear its taking weight off the front too which i feel like it needs more over the front as it is.
You can turn the rear shock collar round to lower the rear.
This will give me a better rake and trail for free so i intend trying that fitst.
Thanks for your input.

 

[r25sti]

what weight are you? most people struggle to soften the front enough. i find the best time my bike feels is when i have a full tank of fuel also think you should try more pressure in the front. Ive also seen these beemers like to run as flat as poss and not with the rear in the air.

 

[fast_ryan]

Front End

You would probably benefit from taking the bike to a suspension specialist and having it properly set up as mentioned in this and other threads. I would do that first because these bikes are particularly sensitive to geometry (rake/trail) changes and you will likely exasperate the problem if you haven?t already addressed the springs and sorted preload. That really needs to be your starting point.

 

[GixxerChuck]

Supercorsa plus cold weather plus cold tyre = feck all grip. Thats my diagnosis anyway!

 

[P0u1]

I have super Corsas on and going from 25c to 18c I have notice a huge difference in grip.

I would say you have the wrong tires on for the environment right now.

 

[MacRR]

Re: Front End

You would probably benefit from taking the bike to a suspension specialist and having it properly set up as mentioned in this and other threads. I would do that first because these bikes are particularly sensitive to geometry (rake/trail) changes and you will likely exasperate the problem if you haven’t already addressed the springs and sorted preload. That really needs to be your starting point.

+1, a DDC equipped S1K is a different proposition to a ZX10 on Showas, ultimately you might not get on with the BMW but suggest you take it to someone who knows S1000's like Phil Crowe

 

[alex]

Yup can't compare bikes, the BMW doesn't feel the same as the R1 I have ridden and I am sure the 10R is different again.

Not all bikes suit all riders.

- Alex

 

[Ukbmw]

I had another ride out today.
I adjusted front preload quite alot as i noticed the fork was travelling a long way under medium breaking so i assumed at 50 degrees lean it could be running out of travel.
Also upped the front damping to plus 4 and softened the rear off a tad hoping all this will increase my trail settings.
Which it did but something still didnt feel nice.
But i then put dds into sport mode instead of slick and it felt alot better.
Its still doing odd things like over a crest when you have a slight angle on the bike the front washes out a bit wide.
I think i still need more trail for me especially as its got the hp wheels its almost too easy to turn and needs the trail relaxing a bit.
It may sound odd but it feels like weight of the bike is too mass centralised and its pivvoting aboit the center axis too freely and a bit uncontrollably.
Hp wheels probably adding to this feeling.
As for supercorsas on the road they are awsome.
As long as you keep going they have stacks of grip and easily got 48 degrees lean today with no effort at all.
The tyres were suprisingly hot for just 14 degrees air temp but i try ride on roads with little traffic so i can keep my speed up.
My thoughts for the future are increase trail more and fit slightly stiffer rear spring as its a bit soft when i wind damping off. Being 16 stone kitted.
Stiffer spring should help load front tyre more too which i hope will help.