Lean angles on track - when do you run out of tyre?

[dmc12]

Had a day at Donington yesterday, felt good to use the bike as intended!

What have people's experiences been on what lean angles have been achieved on track (on OE road tyres)? My brain seems to limit me to about 45 deg (see pic) although the tyre suggests there's way more to go. Having said that the crown is much more vertical than it is on my S22s on my blade which have no chicken strips left at all.

If anyone has done 50+ out there then that might convince me I can actually tip the bike in harder without washing out! (obviously conditions and tyre temp dependent).

Also wheelie control is a revelation on the straights!

(ps don't worry, I will be paying Peter Wileman some money for pics shortly )

 

[toiletduck]

I can't add anything to the mix on lean angles but the pictures look great! Good job.

 

[bananaman]

Rule of thumb generally is where the wear rate finishes. In your pic it looks like you have gone just into the side sipes, the rest is the rubber sitting on top where it's melted off the centre. To tell you to lean a lot more is like telling you to put your hand in the fire, you need to feel it bit by bit, slowly slowly catchy monkey.... Sounds like a good day !

 

[bmwbadboy]

57 is good value

 

[bananaman]

60 is into crashing territory

 

[JamieMac]

Slowly does it. It's really all down to load on the tyre more than lean angle. I don't lean over anywhere need as much as I used to but mid to high 50's is fairly easy to achieve on the road and track without loading the tyres to much. Some tyre manufacturers have an almost vertical edge on their front tyres so reaching the edge means full commitment. I know guys who happily hit 60 degrees on the road but they're simply going round and round a roundabout with out pushing the load on the tyres.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. Just enjoy yourself, don't scary yourself. It took me along time in racing to learn that if I go in too hot into say Paddock bend (Brands), you're better off cracking open the throttle a tiny bit to take the weight off the front tyre and put it on the bigger rear contact patch instead of rolling the throttle off fully and adding more load. Takes a conscious effort for a long time for it to be second nature. Here's my tyres from a trackday.

 

[JamieMac]

Here's my slow mate whose nearly 70 years old himself and his road tyres on his SP1. Another thing is you run a lot lower tyre pressures the faster you get and this allows the tyres to squidge more and increase grip. I personally wouldn't recommend the ubiquitous 36F/42R most manufactures recommend for road pressures. I don't even run that on the road.

 

[dmc12]

Thanks for all the responses - I do think that the profile on the OE Michelin Power RS in the 200/55 size mean it's much harder to reach the edge of the tyre than it is on my 190/55 Bridgestone S22 (see pic - this is just from the first two sessions before I switched bikes). Does this mean I can lean further than I can on the Blade? Maybe! You really do have to slowly reprogram your brain, because let's face it, we're not Marquez who can save a low side with his elbow on the tarmac :adoration:

Couple more gratuitous pics of the BMW in action as well as the Blade for reference

 

[Tattoobob]

I got 53 left and 48 right on the road last summer and that was right to the edge of the tyre.

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[Corkgsxr]

I can do high 40s on the road.

More angle comes with more time.

Tires can hold alot further than you think

 

[bananaman]

I got 53 left and 48 right on the road last summer and that was right to the edge of the tyre.

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59&60 on track, 45/50 on road is fine for me, too many variables

 

[Cupracing]

I?m yet to hit 40 degrees on the road and I don?t hang about. Don?t know how you guys do it

 

[dmc12]

I?m yet to hit 40 degrees on the road and I don?t hang about. Don?t know how you guys do it

Maybe staying right in the saddle and caning it round roundabouts?

I'm not sure how many degrees of lean you save by coming out of the saddle on track - I think it's about 5 or so but depends on your upper body too.

 

[r25sti]

i hit 51 left and 53 right on road at the weekend on m9rr's not tried on track with this bike yet. this is on corners i know very well. knee down is at about 45 degrees though. the gen 4 is totally different to the gen 3. on the gen 3 i could easily get 58 degrees on the road and knee down was 48 degrees. my missis has had 51 left and 51 right on hers.

 

[r25sti]

oh and the tyres you have on the fist picture looks like the power RS. i found them quite strange as in your have chicken strips left on the rear and hardly anything left on the front. my preference would be the other way round and did wonder if on track they would wear the other way round but evidently now.

 

[Tattoobob]

Maybe staying right in the saddle and caning it round roundabouts?

I'm not sure how many degrees of lean you save by coming out of the saddle on track - I think it's about 5 or so but depends on your upper body too.

I know my form is poor as I hardly move off the seat. So I just throw it over.

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[toiletduck]

I know my form is poor as I hardly move off the seat. So I just throw it over.

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In theory (I'm no expert) you'd be having to lean more if your body remains rigid with the bike.

 

[alex]

In theory (I'm no expert) you'd be having to lean more if your body remains rigid with the bike.

Correct. Hanging off reduce the angle of lean required for a given corner/speed.

I use this excuse all the time. Until I see the photo's...

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[Corkgsxr]

How about joe loughlin. At times doesn't seem to hang off at all but doesnt hang about

 

[soofsayer]

View attachment 5916

How about joe loughlin. At times doesn't seem to hang off at all but doesnt hang about

It is an optical illusion imo lol.
If you run an imaginary straight line from the middle of his helmet down the middle of his torso and carry on he is quite a bit over, plus his shoulder and knee are ahead, pointing into the corner, so he?s quite a bit off the seat to the inside imo.