Lean angles on track - when do you run out of tyre?

[JamieMac]

Careful on the ?quicker you get to full gas? description. The top guys are rolling off front brake at the same time as rolling the tiniest amount of throttle on to keep the bike ?stable? and build from there. Look at trackday riders brake / throttle traces and they stop braking, wait as they?re coming out of the corner then a larger handful of throttle. Hence the amount of high sides. A little throttle earlier is way better than more throttle later. A lot less weight transfer with the little earlier.

 

[bmwbadboy]

Careful on the ?quicker you get to full gas? description. The top guys are rolling off front brake at the same time as rolling the tiniest amount of throttle on to keep the bike ?stable? and build from there. Look at trackday riders brake / throttle traces and they stop braking, wait as they?re coming out of the corner then a larger handful of throttle. Hence the amount of high sides. A little throttle earlier is way better than more throttle later. A lot less weight transfer with the little earlier.

all you need to do is to watch this

 

[soofsayer]

I dont think lean angle is consequence of speed.

I can go through a corner slow with knee down and double the speed with knee down

100%.

Knee down isn?t a result of speed, just body position.

 

[JamieMac]

Agreed with Zarco and he?s taking it easy learning the track on a road bike not set up for him. Love proper fast riders. I remember Hodgy going out on a ?race? CB500 cup twin at Brands GP trackday and blitzing everyone in the fast group in the ?Naughties?. Riding everyday at 200mph makes everything else feel slow.

 

[Corkgsxr]

I was doing it for photos one day. Very slow but i covered nearly full corner knee down for a shot.

Could barely pick the bike up and the end of the corner i was so slow

 

[scooby]

all you need to do is to watch this

the most annoying thing about video's like that is, why do we spend so much more money upgrading stock bikes when we know in reality they are already faster than we can ride them!!!

(says me with nearly every upgraded part available :triumphant

 

[DrIoannis]

You have to understand that the lean angle of your dash is not actual lean angle of the bike and the track surface. Theoretically every turn has some degree of camber so the bike is "reading" the lean angle of the bike + the camber of the turn. From the first pic of the thread it seems there are more degrees for the bike to achieve the max lean angle.The only way to achieve real lean angle measurements is with laser/IR distance sensors calibrated correct and logged with data logger. For example http://durbahn.de/Durbahn-Shop/shop...cts/Sensoren_&_Zubeh?r/Sensor_Schr?glage.html. What you see in the dash is a very appx number and just a comparison tool and not actual lean.

 

[toiletduck]

You have to understand that the lean angle of your dash is not actual lean angle of the bike and the track surface. Theoretically every turn has some degree of camber so the bike is "reading" the lean angle of the bike + the camber of the turn. From the first pic of the thread it seems there are more degrees for the bike to achieve the max lean angle.The only way to achieve real lean angle measurements is with laser/IR distance sensors calibrated correct and logged with data logger. For example http://durbahn.de/Durbahn-Shop/shop...cts/Sensoren_&_Zubeh?r/Sensor_Schr?glage.html. What you see in the dash is a very appx number and just a comparison tool and not actual lean.

That's completely fair enough, but everyone is comparing what they see on the dash so it's a fair comparison if some people hit 50 on a road ride but others struggle with 40 in a controlled environment.

 

[P0u1]

I hit 50 on a roundabout today but normally I don't really see it go past 40 on the road as it's too dangerous.

Track well into the high 50s.

I can tell you the rear chicken strips disappear at 50 degrees.

 

[toiletduck]

I hit 50 on a roundabout today but normally I don't really see it go past 40 on the road as it's too dangerous.

Track well into the high 50s.

I can tell you the rear chicken strips disappear at 50 degrees.

Do you mean it's dangerous to be at 40+ degree lean or you're having to commit round blind corners to hit those angles and you're rolling the dice whether there's a horse/cyclist/knobber parked on the inside of the bend?

 

[alex]

Do you mean it's dangerous to be at 40+ degree lean or you're having to commit round blind corners to hit those angles and you're rolling the dice whether there's a horse/cyclist/knobber parked on the inside of the bend?

Yes, for me, the entry and exit of the corners would have to be visible to go over 40degrees on the road...you don't want to be surprised by gravel. You should always be able to stop in the distance you can see.

 

[toiletduck]

Yes, for me, the entry and exit of the corners would have to be visible to go over 40degrees on the road...you don't want to be surprised by gravel. You should always be able to stop in the distance you can see.

Got it, sorry to be pedantic I'm still "new" to superbikes and I read different opinions when it comes to lean. Most people agree that lean isn't purely a product of speed, so when someone says "high lean angles are dangerous on the road" I take that to mean it's one step down the ladder and "high cornering speeds on the road are dangerous on a bike" since you don't have to be breaking speed limits to get high lean angles.

FWIW I generally agree, I've ridden with some nutters in the past where I'm just like "you go right ahead chaps, there could be anything round that hedge and you would have next to no time to react".

 

[alex]

You have less margin at higher lean. You can't suddenly turn tighter for example. But I get that I'm well out of practice and yes you can pull silly lean at slower speeds. But you can't use full brakes or gas.

 

[Cupracing]

How long have you guys with high lean angles been riding for? I?ve been riding for 4 years and this thread has made feel a bit of a rookie. I never really thought about it till I bought the s1k where it measures the lean angle

 

[dmc12]

I'm the one with low lean angles who started the thread :biggrin-new: Passed my test in January 2018, but rode motocross bikes a bit as a teenager.

 

[alex]

I will add that the local roads impact the riding you develop. Riding down saaaffff is no where near as good as between Lincolnshire and Inverness...

 

[alex]

I'm the one with low lean angles who started the thread :biggrin-new: Passed my test in January 2018, but rode motocross bikes a bit as a teenager.

If you haven't already - do Bike Safe/SafeRider with your local council/constabulary its really good. The book that goes with it is a must read too, Roadcraft. https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/shop/product/motorcycle-roadcraft-police-riders-handbook-book
Police Motorcycle and and other advanced rider training is all about 'making progress' in safety. They get you riding and planning your moves ahead of time so you don't need crazy angles to make good progress from A to B.

 

[P0u1]

Do you mean it's dangerous to be at 40+ degree lean or you're having to commit round blind corners to hit those angles and you're rolling the dice whether there's a horse/cyclist/knobber parked on the inside of the bend?

When your rolling the dice.

Pretty sure you could do 45 degrees of lean in the wet with the new traction control but dangerous on the road.

We all do it now and again though

 

[Tattoobob]

How long have you guys with high lean angles been riding for? I?ve been riding for 4 years and this thread has made feel a bit of a rookie. I never really thought about it till I bought the s1k where it measures the lean angle

I passed my test in November 2017 and had never been on a 2 wheeled Bike before then.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

[JamieMac]

I wouldn?t worry too much about angles of lean. I?ve been riding bikes since I was 16 and I?m still learning each mile I do. You can ride the same bike on the same roads and one day it feels amazing and the next awful because you?re tired or got out of the wrong side of the bed. Always a wide entry in to give yourself a better view round the corner and exit in the middle of your lane so you don?t hit anything head on. Always ride with 25% in hand. Learn to use your back brake. Mid corner, it?s one of the safest ways of tightening your line. Always think every other road user is out to kill you and watch the wheel spokes of the cars sitting at side turnings as a small movement in those gives you a much earlier warning they?re starting to pull out. J