exhaust fueling and maps
- Thread starter Mfservice
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Mick753
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"The way I see it is that the autotune costs about 220quid. a professional dyno tune and pcv setup of custom map is unlikely to be any cheaper..."
A custom map should be around ?150, i've never been charged more than 3hrs dyno time to be honest and that is with a tuner that has been really picky trying to get it to what he called nigh on perfect.
"I think there is alot of secrecy and myth surrounding bike tuning. I'm really curious to see the difference between an autotune map and a custom map. Afterall, it's all just numbers on a grid, should be easy to do a comparison."
I don't think there are any real myths surrounding bike tuning or any other engine tuning come to think of it, it is pure and simple engineering, and the only secrecy in tuning tends to be in where the tuner is finding power from within the engine and software but I would agree straight away if you were saying that the way in which they can and do manipulate the dyno result can have a massive effect on the power output that the customer gets to see, that is nothing to do with tuning though in fairness, that's marketing and advertising (albeit in the double edged sword variety).
Given that you are in Kent you could try HM Racing and see what they have to say about the different options for tuning as they tend to know their stuff
A custom map should be around ?150, i've never been charged more than 3hrs dyno time to be honest and that is with a tuner that has been really picky trying to get it to what he called nigh on perfect.
"I think there is alot of secrecy and myth surrounding bike tuning. I'm really curious to see the difference between an autotune map and a custom map. Afterall, it's all just numbers on a grid, should be easy to do a comparison."
I don't think there are any real myths surrounding bike tuning or any other engine tuning come to think of it, it is pure and simple engineering, and the only secrecy in tuning tends to be in where the tuner is finding power from within the engine and software but I would agree straight away if you were saying that the way in which they can and do manipulate the dyno result can have a massive effect on the power output that the customer gets to see, that is nothing to do with tuning though in fairness, that's marketing and advertising (albeit in the double edged sword variety).
Given that you are in Kent you could try HM Racing and see what they have to say about the different options for tuning as they tend to know their stuff
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Just end can
Mick753
Well-known member
And here is where the difference between tuners and dyno's come into play as we already have two bikes on here showing around 174bhp with what appears to be just an end can and yours is throwing out nearly 20bhp more.
Figures can be wildly different and the dyno can be manipulated to give higher or lower readings, particularly higher ones if the tuner is going to attract business too.
Do you have the before run or just the after run Jay showing the torque it is producing?
I don't quite understand the first sentence. Jay1000rr's bike has just an Akrapovic (from what I can make out looking at other pictures) end can fitted. His bike was Dyno power run at the same place mine was being Powertech.
Mine and MFservice has SC projects CR-T end cans. No alterations made to air and fuel mix on all three bikes.
Seemed genuine about the performance and the bike running rich.
So if the bloke at Powertech was looking for making money by tuning mine surely he would do the same with Jay1000rr bike.
Mick753
Well-known member
I never said it happens all the time, but i can tell you first hand that it does happen and it has been happening since Dyno's were first used in the engine tuning industry because practically all tuners want to earn money and one tuner producing more power than another attracts that money, i am not saying everyone in the tuning business stoops to that level, far from it
But two power runs that show 174bhp and then one that shows 191bhp and they all have practically the same setup then there is scope for looking at how 1 bike can be producing so much more power than the other 2, if all 3 of them bikes had the same end can and no other modifications would you expect them to be so far apart in terms of RWHP?
It may be that the 2 bikes reading around 174 are reading massively under.
I only took mine for power run cos Iain had his at hilltop for ecu flash and then tested on power techs dyno and there was 20bhp power difference between the 2 on his bike and asked for others to be checked. I was gonna get a power run done some where else cos even I think 191bhp is high (not saying it not 191 tho) the bikes plenty fast enough or to fast for me on my highly calibrated bum dyno lol
it did also have a lot of wheel spin on dyno, so had to be strapped down. Not sure if that would affect the readings
it did also have a lot of wheel spin on dyno, so had to be strapped down. Not sure if that would affect the readings
DrIoannis
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The BMW is rich in the top RPM or at least it was mine (2010).
For someone to check the results he needs to dyno the bike before and after tuning. The best way is in a dyno that is neutral and NOT in the tuners dyno. This does not mean that every tuner makes up the hp numbers but just to check the results.
For someone to check the results he needs to dyno the bike before and after tuning. The best way is in a dyno that is neutral and NOT in the tuners dyno. This does not mean that every tuner makes up the hp numbers but just to check the results.
I have heard a lot of bad things with Hilltop! How is Iain's bike running after ecu flash?
Im also under the impression that alot of tuners tune for absolute power, and not reliability. letting the AF ratio go too lean in search of more power might make a pretty dyno graph, but for a road bike its a ticking time bomb...
pof
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Like has been said before its more to do with the "before" and "after" figures. When i decatted mine and added the ar system i downloaded a generic map which i knew would be crap but thought it would be better than nothing (was wrong). Had major flat spots and hunted badly.
Took it to a friend of mine who has done my r1 3 times (added different things) and who i know and personally and trust. Instead of just "tweaking" the generic map he had to start from scratch it was that far off. The af is the most important thing i look for and any rwhp gains is a bonus.
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Took it to a friend of mine who has done my r1 3 times (added different things) and who i know and personally and trust. Instead of just "tweaking" the generic map he had to start from scratch it was that far off. The af is the most important thing i look for and any rwhp gains is a bonus.
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Having spoken to John Ingram, he tells me the best way to tune the s1000rr fuelling, means parting with ?1.6k for the official bmw program they can install in the ecu!
fast_ryan
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HP Race Calibration Kit
That will be the HP Race Calibration Kit and ECU unlock code. It certainly isn't cheap but it is by far the best way to adjust fuelling and a whole plethora of other electronic variables for race use.
That will be the HP Race Calibration Kit and ECU unlock code. It certainly isn't cheap but it is by far the best way to adjust fuelling and a whole plethora of other electronic variables for race use.
:upset: If money was no object! Looking at all the ecu remapping products on Alpha racing could spend a few pennies...
DrIoannis
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I have the HP Race ECU and it is very good in many things but for fueling it is not that detailed. You have 12 spots of RPM and 12 spots of of throttle to calibrate. Most of the time it is not enough. You also do not have the ability to tune by gear which is also very important. Personally I tuned the bike with a map of HP Race ECU as good as I could and then added a PCV to tune by gear and have better detailed in RPM/Throttle. For the AFR I use a datalogger with a Bosch 4.9 lambda sensor so I can tune the bike in realistic conditions. In my opinion it is the best way to tune the bike if you know where the engine (AFR) produce the most power.
John Ingram said not to bother with PCV. He also told me the result of 174bhp is very much down on power, and it should be at least 190bhp. So now I'm totally undecided what the best way to go about it all. Going to Bowker motorrad to show them the low power and see what they are going to do about it.
fast_ryan
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HP Race Calibration Kit
All the riders I know on BMWs who are currently racing in the BSB support classes and in MRO are using just the RCK and nothing more. Unless your racing there is very little point in fitting it as it completely invalidates your warranty.
All the riders I know on BMWs who are currently racing in the BSB support classes and in MRO are using just the RCK and nothing more. Unless your racing there is very little point in fitting it as it completely invalidates your warranty.
Re: HP Race Calibration Kit
This ^^^^
Same goes for all ECU flashing.
- Sent from Mobile
This ^^^^
Same goes for all ECU flashing.
- Sent from Mobile
Iain-s1000rr
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Hi guys,Think mines a bad example, When taking mine to hiltop for the re flash, he told me that the bike wasnt running a custom map to start with. Apparently the previous owner had been messing with it. I took mine to hiltop as i had heard good reviews, when i fit my decat and stubby akra it ran like a bag of sh*t, after the re flash it ran so much sweeter so for me it was money well spent. My figures weren't as high as id seen on some other bikes but like people say it can be fiddled slightly.
