Sprockets

[Northernsoul65]

Crowe performance suggested a change to oem - 1 down on the front and one up on the rear (from 17/45 to 16/46)

Chap at my garage, who mainly works on race and track bikes, suggested stick with standard 17/45. Something to do with changing wheelbase and that messing up/around with suspension set up.

Thoughts?

cheers
John

 

[bmwbadboy]

What bike is that ?

 

[Northernsoul65]

Gen 3

What bike is that ?

 

[bmwbadboy]

Gen 3

I would do 16-43

16-46 is too short even for UK tracks

 

[Northernsoul65]

spoke to my garage chap again. When they've gone down on the front he says suspension has had to be run really soft. He suggested just going up to 46 rear for a bit more punch out of corners

I would do 16-43

16-46 is too short even for UK tracks

 

[bmwbadboy]

spoke to my garage chap again. When they've gone down on the front he says suspension has had to be run really soft. He suggested just going up to 46 rear for a bit more punch out of corners

Sorry mate this doesnt make any sense.

I suggest to pay 50 to a proper suspension guy at the track to sort it out.

gearing does change the wheelbase a bit (16-43 extends it, which helps to prevent wheelies), but "suspension to be run really soft" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[bmwbadboy]

You will have a lot of punch on 16-46 no doubts, but what will end up happening is 1) wheelie up and hence off gas 2) wheelie control cutting power.

Gen3 engine has enough torque to drive 16-43 without any issues.

 

[Northernsoul65]

appreciate your comments mate. I'm new to all this so obviously have to place trust somwehere in the end. Ken is a racer and long term mechanic on track and race bikes. They've done work on BMW rr's quite a lot for track.
so he's suggesting 17/46 and not dropping at the front. I hear what you say re wheelies. I probably haven't communicated what he said to me very well!
you might be right getting suspension set up. Can they do the that even with everything being electronic?

Sorry mate this doesnt make any sense.

I suggest to pay 50 to a proper suspension guy at the track to sort it out.

gearing does change the wheelbase a bit (16-43 extends it, which helps to prevent wheelies), but "suspension to be run really soft" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[Northernsoul65]

2 track days I've had thus far I've had in slick mode. isn't the wheelie intervention turned off with this setting? hence having to manage any wheelies oneself with throttle/brakes?

You will have a lot of punch on 16-46 no doubts, but what will end up happening is 1) wheelie up and hence off gas 2) wheelie control cutting power.

Gen3 engine has enough torque to drive 16-43 without any issues.

 

[bmwbadboy]

appreciate your comments mate. I'm new to all this so obviously have to place trust somwehere in the end. Ken is a racer and long term mechanic on track and race bikes. They've done work on BMW rr's quite a lot for track.
so he's suggesting 17/46 and not dropping at the front. I hear what you say re wheelies. I probably haven't communicated what he said to me very well!
you might be right getting suspension set up. Can they do the that even with everything being electronic?

I mean its difficult to say anything against it, if Ken is the racer than he knows his stuff.
The guy I usually speak to, Dave Carnell at HM who helps a team in BSB STK, uses 16-43 on Gen3/4 on most of UK tracks.

The best thing is to try yourself and see what you like. Rear sprockets are relatively cheap and easy to change.

Re: wheelie control on OE ECU - I don't remember now. I've been using RS2E flash that has different wheelie control settings. Probably manual is the best source of info.

Re: DDC suspension - yes, you options in front are very limited without a front pot sensor.
From personal experience, start with what you have and see how it goes. spend some time and maybe money to setup your existing suspension - static/rider SAG.

From there on you have pretty much an open field and unlimited options
1) buy front pot to separate comp/rebound dumping to have more fine grain control
2) replace DDC with conventional suspension

really depends on what you want to do with the bike and your budget

 

[Northernsoul65]

thanks mate, appreciate your comments.
I've just bought the bike so I'm not ready to start spending tons as yet. I'd love to go mad with goodies but will do things gradually. I think replacing suspension with manual set up would be good. I'm also thinking decat and remap; new master brake cylinder; spare set of wheels; etc etc

I mean its difficult to say anything against it, if Ken is the racer than he knows his stuff.
The guy I usually speak to, Dave Carnell at HM who helps a team in BSB STK, uses 16-43 on Gen3/4 on most of UK tracks.

The best thing is to try yourself and see what you like. Rear sprockets are relatively cheap and easy to change.

Re: wheelie control on OE ECU - I don't remember now. I've been using RS2E flash that has different wheelie control settings. Probably manual is the best source of info.

Re: DDC suspension - yes, you options in front are very limited without a front pot sensor.
From personal experience, start with what you have and see how it goes. spend some time and maybe money to setup your existing suspension - static/rider SAG.

From there on you have pretty much an open field and unlimited options
1) buy front pot to separate comp/rebound dumping to have more fine grain control
2) replace DDC with conventional suspension

really depends on what you want to do with the bike and your budget

 

[alex]

Get the swingarm length (centre of swingarm pivot to centre of axle) out to 608-612mm using sprockets and chain length. The 17/46 makes the swingarm shorter than stock so it will be harder to get in that range. It makes the bike more flickable but harder to get drive.

16/43 is what HM Racing advise. Longest swingarm on the stock chain, great drive.
16/46 makes 2nd really effective if you don't want to use first
I've been using 16/44 which gives decent swingarm length and a little more zip than 16/43.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Gobert]

You will have a lot of punch on 16-46 no doubts, but what will end up happening is 1) wheelie up and hence off gas 2) wheelie control cutting power.

Gen3 engine has enough torque to drive 16-43 without any issues.

As above, you will spend a lot of time with the front in the air. I'm running the bike high at the front, low at the back which is regarded as the right way to go to get the "right" swingarm angle and use 16/44 gearing so the wheel is pushed pretty far back in the swing arm........wheelies are an issue with this set up so with 16/46 and the associated shorter wheelbase, you'll spend a lot of time with the front wheel in the air.

 

[Northernsoul65]

spoke with Dave Carnell at HM. He suggests 16/44, 2D potentiometer, 520 chain, steel sprockets, then get suspension set up. Suggested that would be a good set up for most tracks. So that would be the same sprocket sizes as you Alex. When you say more zip, you talking about 2nd gear out of corners or more generally?

Get the swingarm length (centre of swingarm pivot to centre of axle) out to 608-612mm using sprockets and chain length. The 17/46 makes the swingarm shorter than stock so it will be harder to get in that range. It makes the bike more flickable but harder to get drive.

16/43 is what HM Racing advise. Longest swingarm on the stock chain, great drive.
16/46 makes 2nd really effective if you don't want to use first
I've been using 16/44 which gives decent swingarm length and a little more zip than 16/43.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Northernsoul65]

spoke with Dave Carnell who suggested 16/44, 520 chain, front sensor. Sounds like he knows his onions, and garage only 20 mins from me so think I'll get the bike into them for suspension set up once i've got those bits. 2D sensor sounds like a worthwhile investment

I mean its difficult to say anything against it, if Ken is the racer than he knows his stuff.
The guy I usually speak to, Dave Carnell at HM who helps a team in BSB STK, uses 16-43 on Gen3/4 on most of UK tracks.

The best thing is to try yourself and see what you like. Rear sprockets are relatively cheap and easy to change.

Re: wheelie control on OE ECU - I don't remember now. I've been using RS2E flash that has different wheelie control settings. Probably manual is the best source of info.

Re: DDC suspension - yes, you options in front are very limited without a front pot sensor.
From personal experience, start with what you have and see how it goes. spend some time and maybe money to setup your existing suspension - static/rider SAG.

From there on you have pretty much an open field and unlimited options
1) buy front pot to separate comp/rebound dumping to have more fine grain control
2) replace DDC with conventional suspension

really depends on what you want to do with the bike and your budget

 

[alex]

Yes zip = little more punch from low rpm as I don't carry enough corner speed

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Gobert]

spoke with Dave Carnell at HM. He suggests 16/44, 2D potentiometer, 520 chain, steel sprockets, then get suspension set up. Suggested that would be a good set up for most tracks. So that would be the same sprocket sizes as you Alex. When you say more zip, you talking about 2nd gear out of corners or more generally?

How much do you weigh?

What tracks do you ride?

What track day group do you ride in?

 

[Northernsoul65]

13.5 stone
brands indy & GP, snett, donny, cadwell as of next week, oulton in Aiug, and just done Mallory
inters

How much do you weigh?

What tracks do you ride?

What track day group do you ride in?

 

[scooby]

spoke with Dave Carnell who suggested 16/44, 520 chain, front sensor. Sounds like he knows his onions, and garage only 20 mins from me so think I'll get the bike into them for suspension set up once i've got those bits. 2D sensor sounds like a worthwhile investment

front pot is deffo a good investment as gives a lot better scope for adjustment.keep your eye open on here or FB market place,they do come up from time to time.

i'm at oulton in august (assume NL) give me shout when you go and can help with set up if needed

 

[Northernsoul65]

we're there on 24th and 25th

front pot is deffo a good investment as gives a lot better scope for adjustment.keep your eye open on here or FB market place,they do come up from time to time.

i'm at oulton in august (assume NL) give me shout when you go and can help with set up if needed