New tyres k3's or Pirelli?

[Zxcv12]

I've never had either before the original k3's so not sure which is best. Anyone recommend a particular tyre?
The k3's were the original figment on my 2016 sport model, they have been good! But the rear tyre is nearly finished after 2200 miles. I like them, but the rear has been tearing on track without using tyre warmers, and that's in race mode. Not sure why I do 2/3 warm up laps and I'd have thought the TC would help out there, though it is working a lot. I'm also not a huge fan of the profile, I think a V shape would feel better than the U of the k3's. I'm looking for something ace on track, but OK for road. Mileage is not an issue, but don't want something that will be unworkable on those chilly Sunday mornings...
I'm utterly confused about the Pirelli range, which has the right profile and will be more track orientated, but will be ok on the road. Looking for the holy grail! Any ideas anyone?

 

[alex]

Pretty sure the K3 and SC profile is the same. K3 is better at mileage, SC has more edge grip.
It's more likely the tyre pressure or the rear shock not the tyre itself that's causing the issue imo.
I'd get the suspension checked for your weight/riding style.
Though what do YOU mean by tearing? Is is cold or hot tear, what pressures are you running?

 

[Zxcv12]

Ah ok re profile, maybe an alternative would be better, definitely looking for a V profile I much prefer the quicker lighter turn. The K3 is looking good all over, nicely worn with that slightly waves texture to the edge, but there's a strip of torn tyre 2/3 over that is clearly ripped. So that'll be full throttle when getting out of a corner with the TC helping me out. I'm 14st with gear, everything set to std. I'm not good at setup....

 

[fast_ryan]

Tyres

The only options designed predominantly for track use but with road users in mind, from Metzeler or Pirelli, are the new Racetec RR K3s or Supercorsa SP. Both are a harder compound version of each companies race tyres. You can't really expect decent mileage from either of them as they are designed for grip and not durability. Having used both of these tyres the newer Metzeler Racetec RR K3 is the better choice.

As for the tyre tearing it is largely irrelevant whether you are using tyre warmers or not. You need to identify whether it is a cold tear, caused by under inflation, or a hot tear caused by over inflation. Both Metzeler and Pirelli race/track tyres have a working pressure range and if you are operating outside of these you can expect to have tyre issues. If you are still having tyre issues, despite using the correct hot or cold pressures, then it is most likely a problem caused by poor suspension setup.

 

[alex]

Can you get us a photo?

 

[Zxcv12]

Re: Tyres

The only options designed predominantly for track use but with road users in mind, from Metzeler or Pirelli, are the new Racetec RR K3s or Supercorsa SP. Both are a harder compound version of each companies race tyres. You can't really expect decent mileage from either of them as they are designed for grip and not durability. Having used both of these tyres the newer Metzeler Racetec RR K3 is the better choice.

As for the tyre tearing it is largely irrelevant whether you are using tyre warmers or not. You need to identify whether it is a cold tear, caused by under inflation, or a hot tear caused by over inflation. Both Metzeler and Pirelli race/track tyres have a working pressure range and if you are operating outside of these you can expect to have tyre issues. If you are still having tyre issues, despite using the correct hot or cold pressures, then it is most likely a problem caused by poor suspension setup.

Good info thanks. I'm assuming they're the same profile then so may as well stick with K3's...
unless there's a similar tyre with a V profile?
I take on board what you're saying about setup, that was one of the main reasons for going with the BMW And DDC. I'm in the std weight range for the bike as I understand it, and I like the idea of the development and electronics taking the guess work out, but it seems there's still some fettling to be done? Maybe a trip to MCT will help me out, best go soon with the evidence of the rear tyre intact. Front is all good. By the way, I'm absolutely not that quick! I was lapped on a track day this week, twice, on the same session, by some Bsb guys doing some sighting laps. No idea what they were on! But I would like to improve and setup has always been tricky for me.

 

[soofsayer]

There is a popular misconception that DDC also sorts out preload adjustment, it does not, it manages damping. You need to set your preload/sag correctly, otherwise the ddc will not perform as effectively as designed.

 

[Zxcv12]

Can you get us a photo?

I'll try tomorrow! That would help....
This may be a tyre pressure issue. I'm using 31 ish on track.
Thanks for the input All, I'll try and work out how to post a picture I think that will give me a bit more insight with your experience.

 

[Zxcv12]

There is a popular misconception that DDC also sorts out preload adjustment, it does not, it manages damping. You need to set your preload/sag correctly, otherwise the ddc will not perform as effectively as designed.

Well that is popular misconception that I've bought into. I've not yet set up my sag, maybe I should look at this next. I just thought the DDC would sort all that out as I was pretty much in the middle range for std setup. But, the bike did have the front tyre set to 42 psi when I picked it up so who knows. Looks like I'm going to have to actually do something myself...

 

[alex]

For reference I was using 30F/26R on K3's at Snetterton in 20degrees. Think I still may have gotten some cold tear!

 

[MacRR]

Well that is popular misconception that I've bought into. I've not yet set up my sag, maybe I should look at this next. I just thought the DDC would sort all that out as I was pretty much in the middle range for std setup. But, the bike did have the front tyre set to 42 psi when I picked it up so who knows. Looks like I'm going to have to actually do something myself...

Suggest you get it done professionally unless you know what you're doing, suspension set up service available at most track days for not a lot of dollar

 

[Zxcv12]

Suggest you get it done professionally unless you know what you're doing, suspension set up service available at most track days for not a lot of dollar

Will do, but I have had a 'professional' set up before, and it was unrideable!
Will post a picture if I can and get some more feedback, setup my sag as per handbook, and try again.
Still looking for that V profile recommendation if anyone has one?
Thanks everyone- much useful info!

 

[Zxcv12]

For reference I was using 30F/26R on K3's at Snetterton in 20degrees. Think I still may have gotten some cold tear!

Interesting....I may be too high. How low can you go though and ride back from the track without a pump!

 

[fast_ryan]

Tyres & Suspension Setup

To get the best from the DDC system you need to set front and rear preload to suit not just your weight but also your riding style. Once you have done that you can then start altering compression and rebound to best effect in order to exploit the grip that's available from the tyres.

 

[fast_ryan]

Tyres

With regards to tyre profile the Metzeler or Pirelli tyres I mentioned earlier will offer what you are looking for. Yes a sharper profile will aid turn in but correct suspension setup will have a far greater effect. As for pressures you need to make sure that you are either using cold or hot pressures and not confusing the two.

 

[DrIoannis]

Re: Tyres

I have used multiple tyre choices for my 2010 S1000RR and DTC was never a problem even with 200/55 rear tyre. If you want a sharper profile you can use the Michelin V profile but I must warn you it turns in reeeaaalllyyy quickly and in very hard braking it is not as stable as the U shaped Pirelli Metzeler.
I am now settled to Dunlop mainly 212 and KR slick (not Road Legal). The 212 Dunlop gives me better feeling when leaned over and also way better traction in the exit of the corner than anything I have tried in DOT tyres. They are good in the roads too. You can also try if available the 211 GP Racer that have compound choices (S,M,H). They are not as good as 212 in the track, but still very capable tyre. In the 212 tires I suggest MS 5 rear and MS3-4 front depending of the track surface and temperature (road is not a problem).

 

[Zxcv12]

I went for a replacement for the k3 in the end, but there's a new one called the metzler k3 rr. It has the same tread pattern as the Pirelli but has metzler on the side. Not sure what that's all about but it is supposed to be an upgrade to the std 2016 figment. I can report that indeed it does seem better! A day at Snetterton saw no tearing at all using the same pressures as before and in race mode. Felt good too, not better, but no problems. Worth a look if you're thinking of getting new k3's. They cost me ?7 more!

 

[fast_ryan]

Metzeler

The tyres that come supplied on the cast wheels are the older Metzeler Racetec Interact K3. They are a very good tyre and broadly similar, but the new Racetec RR version is better in every way.

 

[Zxcv12]

Re: Metzeler

The tyres that come supplied on the cast wheels are the older Metzeler Racetec Interact K3. They are a very good tyre and broadly similar, but the new Racetec RR version is better in every way.

Good to know thanks. Is there a matching front? I've still got the old k3 on the front, seems fine, but if the new rr is better....
come to think of it, the old front was a bit vague on the brakes at the end of the straights

 

[fast_ryan]

Metzeler Racetec RR

http://www.metzeler.com/site/uk/products/tyres-catalogue/Racetec-RR.html