New Owner Thoughts - 2024 S1000RR M Package

[alex]

About those wings... ;-)

I get that there's plenty of frustration here, I am sure you're not wrong. I find the K67 deceptively fast because it's smooth and controlled. I have also weighed the consequences of a map vs my warranty, because I wanted to decat and not risk going super lean due to the improved exhaust flow.
I agree that none of these bikes can show their real potential without a map because of the EU/Cali overlords. I'm just unable to descern over the internet if you have a defect or a 'feature'.

On track, my 16T sprokect'd '23, wing-equipped, S1000RR can paw the air if I am in the right mode in 2nd. I'm never at full throttle in 2nd because of it. It definitely doesn't lift at 140 or I'd s**t myself in panic

 

[alex]

Here's a data overlay of what the Grip Position is compared to the Throttle Position (blue and red lines). A lot of this section of the track at Almeria is taken in 2nd.

At the top the grey line is lean angle and the orange is the gear position.

Notes: Where the cursor is (dotted red line cross hairs). My grip position is asking for 54% throttle but I am only getting 48...because my lean angle is 37 degrees. When I'm upright and over 95% throttle the ECU gives 100%....

 

[TheGodfather]

You say it's a Euro spec. I don't know if it still applies but UK used to get full power but France was limited, muted like the States. Going back about 15 years so don't know if still the same

 

[MotoDocRR]

"Frankly I find your comment a bit petty and shallow, missing the entire point of the conversation."​

Uncalled for, chill out.

Your posts have read to many like you want that directness of feel with the throttle to be able to control wheel lift, I was thinking the same that you wanted something more analogue. The ECU is mapped to take your inputs, review the sensors and then decide what this scenario needs. It wants to go forwards so they DO limit power in lower gears.

If you want more pep from the RR that you love, without the map, try a 16T front sprocket, makes it feel quite a bit more lively.

"So here's my answer to your comment. You have completely misunderstood what we have been talking about and once again, I am really in awe at how many people are just refusing to believe what's so obvious even when so many around the world are complaining about."​

Not really sure what you want from us?
You may have a genuine issue which is holding the bike back. A dyno may help understand/prove it.

I don't want anything man. Just a nice discussion and opinions on the matter. Simple.

This is only to get info from members who have faced the issue, members who have solved it, members who haven't, and members who have some valuable info to share that's it. This is important because it will actually raise some awareness and enable everyone who is considering to reflash / tune their bikes to make an informed decision.

Anyway, in that aim, I am sharing some info I obtained on the US forums. I am not saying it is necessarily true or valid for everyone. But it does seem like there have been many problems associated with the BT-moto tune. Here are a few instances of customer reports.

- They seem to disable all error messages in order to enable their intake flap delete and exhaust valve delete. So there might be an issue with OBD warnings that have not shown up until the bikes were reflashed to stock.
- One member had multiple instances of ignition coil failures and camshaft sensor failures.
- Another member had an issue with the bike suddenly cutting out in traffic

Hope this helps and that other members scan add a few problems or share any insight!
I will share more when I have anything
I will share my bike's dyno graphs when I get to that point for sure.

Cheers!

 

[MotoDocRR]

Here's a data overlay of what the Grip Position is compared to the Throttle Position (blue and red lines). A lot of this section of the track at Almeria is taken in 2nd.

At the top the grey line is lean angle and the orange is the gear position.

Notes: Where the cursor is (dotted red line cross hairs). My grip position is asking for 54% throttle but I am only getting 48...because my lean angle is 37 degrees. When I'm upright and over 95% throttle the ECU gives 100%....


View attachment 5188

Can this data be obtained at a dyno session? like do they have access to all these channels? I know they have throttle grip position but do you think they can see the actual throttle position at the throttle bodies? would be amazing if they did. Otherwise it would require a serious datalogger for that.

 

[alex]

It's all on the canbus, so it's available to be read. Best to speak to a dyno operator and find out if their software will display it.
BT changes are often completely unnecessary. Their maps have a very varied hit rate. I'll lay odds that none are 'perfect'. There are better tuners out there.

You have a K67 Gen 5 (2023+) version of the S1000RR, it's important to focus on issues reported to affect that generation as there will be many updates to parts incorporated which are learnings from the K67 Gen 4 (2019-2022) version. The coil packs were a particular weak point on the Gen 4 for stock and modified bikes alike, definitely a BMW part issue. I've not yet come across any specific failures for the Gen 5.

 

[MotoDocRR]

Here's a data overlay of what the Grip Position is compared to the Throttle Position (blue and red lines). A lot of this section of the track at Almeria is taken in 2nd.

At the top the grey line is lean angle and the orange is the gear position.

Notes: Where the cursor is (dotted red line cross hairs). My grip position is asking for 54% throttle but I am only getting 48...because my lean angle is 37 degrees. When I'm upright and over 95% throttle the ECU gives 100%....


View attachment 5188

Possible to see a graph portion when bike is upright?

 

[alex]

If you trace the grey line, where it intersects with the dotted line the bike is upright.
To the right of where the cursor is, I open the gas and drive out of a corner until upright with the throttle wide open. The piece of the trace with a flat top on the Throttle/Grip (blue/red). Here you can see that I am getting nearly everything I ask for and sometimes more, with and without lean angle.

 

[Fraggle]

Aren't the US spec bikes notorious for being more restricted due to emission regulations?

For the OP: V4 and crossplane crank bikes will feel like they have more oomph lower down in the rev range. That's just the nature of the engines. And the move to ride-by-wire throttles means you no longer have a direct link between your hand and engine. There's a reason the GSX K5/6 is so beloved due to the directness. And I'm not surprised you're finding a 600 faster under certain conditions. The limit on bikes is wheeling and traction, a 600 is already finding those from a stop. You want a faster 0-60 time you're going to want a Rocket 3 or a Diavel; their long wheelbases allow them to out accelerate any sportsbike from out the hole. Where you'll see a litre bike shine is the 50mph+ acceleration. I get to compare the BMW to my other bike (Honda NC700) and believe me, the S1K is not slow. It'll embarrass anything on 4 wheels short of a hypercar and you're unlikely to see one on a daily basis in the UK. Even comparing to previously owned litre bikes (Gen3 and 08 ZX10) it is faster than those. As Alex has pointed out though, it does it without drama. The power delivery is smooth and lacking the emotion that other bikes may invoke.

 

[alex]

I believe the OP doesn't have a Euro map...if it's truly gutless it has to be a US map.

 

[MotoDocRR]

Aren't the US spec bikes notorious for being more restricted due to emission regulations?

For the OP: V4 and crossplane crank bikes will feel like they have more oomph lower down in the rev range. That's just the nature of the engines. And the move to ride-by-wire throttles means you no longer have a direct link between your hand and engine. There's a reason the GSX K5/6 is so beloved due to the directness. And I'm not surprised you're finding a 600 faster under certain conditions. The limit on bikes is wheeling and traction, a 600 is already finding those from a stop. You want a faster 0-60 time you're going to want a Rocket 3 or a Diavel; their long wheelbases allow them to out accelerate any sportsbike from out the hole. Where you'll see a litre bike shine is the 50mph+ acceleration. I get to compare the BMW to my other bike (Honda NC700) and believe me, the S1K is not slow. It'll embarrass anything on 4 wheels short of a hypercar and you're unlikely to see one on a daily basis in the UK. Even comparing to previously owned litre bikes (Gen3 and 08 ZX10) it is faster than those. As Alex has pointed out though, it does it without drama. The power delivery is smooth and lacking the emotion that other bikes may invoke.

I believe the OP doesn't have a Euro map...if it's truly gutless it has to be a US map.

@ Alex I am definitely starting to think so too. even though my dealer has confirmed we have Euro Spec bikes. I have seen the BT-Moto video for their tune. Granted there's the obvious conflict of interest from their side. But I have seen in the initial part of the video (pre-tune) the exact dead spots I have on my bike...

This is what I'm talking about



I suggest watching the whole video for all the info.

Check out 7:40 for 2nd gear pull
Check out 9:30 for a quick race with a tuned M1K
Check out 20:10 for 2nd gear restriction on dyno

I feel like I have the same dead spot in second.
Later on after the tune the bike can power wheelie in 2nd like it's nothing. This is what I expect from a bike like this.

It would be interesting to know if you have the same dead spot on your euro bikes.

 

[Mrider89]

Hi Coyote and thanks for chipping in
Frankly I find your comment a bit petty and shallow, missing the entire point of the conversation.

I'm sorry but you have completely misunderstood everything I have said.
I have never wheelied a motorcycle or performed any stunts aside from the occasional fun power wheelie. Nor do I want to even learn how to wheelie because that's not my style of riding.
I have never said that I wanted a stunt bike or a brute like the ones you are describing. In fact my friend back home wanted to upgrade from a 2018 ZX10RR to an H2 and I actually convinced him to go with the S1000RR because it is the cutting edge of technology, handling, and efficiency. And he is now having the same complaints I have with the same stakes at BMW warranty loss. Copy / paste scenario.

All I have said is that this bike is restricted and here is the simple version because it seems difficult to understand for some

1- As a customer
I feel I am not getting my money's worth because I didn't buy a 210 HP Superbike to get 50% of its performance.
I also feel cheated because BMW in the UAE got so many to buy this bike by advertising a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty, while most of our competition (Ducati V4S, Yamaha R1M, Aprilia RSV4 Factory) were only offering 1 year. All of these bikes are sharper in power and miles more in line with a true superbike (Noo, not stunt bikes, super bikes for the track, and laptimes).
The warranty, along with with a competitive price and a service contract was maybe 50-70% of the weight in my decision for the BMW. So naturally when I hear from my dealer that you can lose your warranty if you do pretty much anything more involved than putting a sticker on the fairing, yes I feel cheated and very disappointed. ESPECIALLY when the competition is offering modification and tuning options under warranty.

2- As a rider
I am planning to take this bike to track and might make it a track only bike. So in answer to your comment regarding stoppies and wheelies on a geriatric K5, please understand what kind of rider I am.
What I do hate, as an experienced, fast, and demanding rider, is that my new superbike which is supposed to be one of the top performing bikes in the world at this moment, can be easily out-accelerated by a 600 cc middle weight in certain conditions, simply because it is THROTTLE RESTRICTED. I don't care what anyone says, this is NOT wheelie control or any kind of rider aid intervening. It is just a matter of you as a rider not getting what you paid for. You want to call that efficiency and be a brand faithful BMW rider who refuses to criticize them? be my guest. But I won't be that kind of rider.

If you're using your super bike for commuting and cruising around the city never getting past 40 MPH then you have no problem and in fact I suspect that's why most riders don't even realize the problem I'm talking about. Some get it. but the majority of people are completely oblivious to this.
The only way i can understand that someone doesn't feel the restrictions on this bike are if they are new to the 1000cc platform, new riders overall, or just casual riders who are just cruising around with no aim to have any form of aggressive riding.

Yes I am a demanding rider in that I want the performance and power to BLOW ME AWAY. I should have the right to expect and demand that from a 30,000$, 210 HP motorcycle. And it should, if you know anything about bikes, be sooo much more powerful.

So here's my answer to your comment. You have completely misunderstood what we have been talking about and once again, I am really in awe at how many people are just refusing to believe what's so obvious even when so many around the world are complaining about.

Yes at this point I do regret my decision to buy a S1K, simply because I would have obtained all of my demands from a V4S or an RSV4, out of the box. And they would allow me to tune the bike and install an aftermarket racing exhaust at their workshops, under warranty.
That said, I will be fixing this issue because I'm still happy with my purchase and as I've said before, I am in love with the bike for the exact reasons you have mentioned (German engineering and what not). BUT I REFUSE to ignore the rest of the equation, which is power on tap when I need / want it. And I hate BMW is because they are making me pay for it by forfeiting a 5 year warranty on a brand new bike.

Go get the thing flashed just like everone ese, problem solved.....It wasn't easy for me to flash my $41k 2024 m1000rr. especially with a $15k motor.....BUT, MOST bikes are absolutely fine. Get a brentune stage 1 flash on the thing, best money you'll ever spend. Bike will come alive. Did you not do your research on this bike before you bought it and go on forums and see what the pros and cons were? Everyone that is going to spend that kind of $ on a bike, should. Just general practice as a consumer. Everyone knows the K 67/66 has that infamous 6-8k rpm range flat spot. I have a '21 k67 and a '24 k66. My k67 has 25,000 miles. Full Ti Akra, sprint filter and BT stage one at 900 miles. Never once had a problem. DONT raise the rev limiter, not IF, but WHEN you flash it,, theres no need.

I was going to go with RS2e this time with my K66 just to try something different, next bike for sure .

Best of luck.

 

[bananaman]

I have a 2020, I've no desire to wring it's neck on the road for obvious reasons. On track, it's more than adequate if it's kept in the power range (which is what it's built for). It's been built for the best of both worlds and does both well.