New Owner Thoughts - 2024 S1000RR M Package

[MotoDocRR]

Hello everyone!
New member and new owner of a brand new 2024 S1000RR M Package purchased in the UAE.

I've been riding this bike for a few months now and for the most part it has been an enlightening experience.

First of all a quick background
I am a quick street rider and my latest bike prior to this one (still in my possession) is a mint condition, fully modded and tuned Daytona 675R which I have taken to the absolute limit. A beast in the middle weight world. But coming to the S1K as my first 1000cc bike I have to say this is an entirely different ball game. This is probably why it took me some time to realize the main issue on the BMW and after some extensive research into the matter I think I am ready to discuss with you guys.

I will not bore you guys with a long review as this has been done here before and I quite agree with everything that was said.

The bike has been super impressive to be honest but I have a major issue with the restrictions on the power. To be clear I am not talking about the rev limit you get sorted at the first service. I am talking about the torque limitations, throttle and emissions restrictions we have that are creating the famous mid range flat spot on our bikes. To be honest I hadn't noticed them much at first but as I grew more familiar with the bike I started noticing that it should be able to offer MUCH more power, MOSTLY in the mid range in the lower gears, but also noticeably near the top end and at top speed.

As I've researched more and more I've come across a lot of reviews and owners seem to be complaining about this issue quite frequently.
Aside from all the famous reviewers (rightfully) stating how amazing this bike is, private owners seem to be annoyed, quite like myself, that we are not getting anywhere near the performance that this bike has to offer.

I have discussed this with the BMW dealers where I purchased the bike and they flat out told me that basically any modifications done to counteract this would pretty much instantly void our warranty (5 years unlimited mileage where I live) and that there was basically nothing we could do to avoid that. They don't offer any options for de-restriction, flashing, or exhaust modification (which Ducati does in my country, both racing exhaust and a factory designed map with derestrictions) and basically I am stuck with this setup if I am keen on keeping my warranty.

Honestly I find this very disappointing and I feel a bit cheated that I have paid so much money for a superbike that is heavily restricted and that I can't modify in any way.
Yes of course I am aware that I am no Valentino Rossi and am not racing etc... but I do want to have all this bike has to offer and I think we are all entitled to that and should be able to obtain it if we so choose.

I am curious as to your opinions on this matter and here are my questions
- Would you disregard the warranty and flash your ecu?
- Have you done it and how is the bike after reflashing?
- Thoughts on Bren Tune / SLR / other known tuners?
- Is this warranty issue the same in the UK?

For me it sounds like a sneaky marketing ploy from BMW, at least in my part of the world, who are advertising a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty which they know the vast majority of superbike riders would forfeit because let's be honest, who's going to keep an S1K bone stock for 5 years?
My thoughts at least. If I had to do it all again, I probably would go for a Ducati or Aprilia as a much more flexible platform.

Looking forward to hearing what you guys think of this.

Cheers

 

[alex]

Is the UAE bike the same as the EU or the USA model? My '23 (identical to the '24) didn't feel like it had a flat spot from the factory so I am wondering if you've got a USA based map.

Feeling cheated? Not sure why, they are doing things within the laws set by governments and then they warranty those settings. Warranty claims are usually much easier if you have a decent relationship with the dealer/workshop and because of that they help present your case to BMW. I've seen modified bikes successful and unsuccessful, there's no black and white answer in reality. The one written is the back stop position.

No one uses USA sourced tuning here, we have access to better solutions. Easiest for you would be a map from rs2e.de which is done via the post (you send the ecu's and dash and they work magic on it). I can attest that my Gen 3 Track bike worked very well with their map for years. If you get a map and then dyno it to prove the AFR's are good, BMW would have to go some to prove the map was the cause of an issue. If you've plenty of evidence that good oil and good fueling was in place at all times they are pretty good at acknowledging when a fault is either, completely unrelated to any modifications or not directly a result of them.

 

[MotoDocRR]

Is the UAE bike the same as the EU or the USA model? My '23 (identical to the '24) didn't feel like it had a flat spot from the factory so I am wondering if you've got a USA based map.

Feeling cheated? Not sure why, they are doing things within the laws set by governments and then they warranty those settings. Warranty claims are usually much easier if you have a decent relationship with the dealer/workshop and because of that they help present your case to BMW. I've seen modified bikes successful and unsuccessful, there's no black and white answer in reality. The one written is the back stop position.

No one uses USA sourced tuning here, we have access to better solutions. Easiest for you would be a map from rs2e.de which is done via the post (you send the ecu's and dash and they work magic on it). I can attest that my Gen 3 Track bike worked very well with their map for years. If you get a map and then dyno it to prove the AFR's are good, BMW would have to go some to prove the map was the cause of an issue. If you've plenty of evidence that good oil and good fueling was in place at all times they are pretty good at acknowledging when a fault is either, completely unrelated to any modifications or not directly a result of them.

I'm not 100% sure but I think we get the Euro Spec. I will double check. But I heard that while US bikes are the worst in terms of restriction, the Euro bikes have it too albeit to a lesser extent.

What I am 100% sure of, however, is that there is a severe restriction in the low-mid range in 2nd and 3rd. I know that because I know what a 1000cc should feel like under full throttle and my Daytona feels a lot more alive in that range. The power comes on at 9-10K on the BMW and then it's a rocket until 12-13 where it dips again. It's easy to discern.

I feel cheated because the warranty was one of the main reasons I chose this bike over the competition. And now according to my dealer there is nothing I can do to the ECU without voiding the warranty. I have asked many many times and this was the response I got every time. So I'm not sure what to do.
Yes what you're saying is true about they have to prove that the mods caused the problem in case it happens but that's not the vibe I got from my dealer.
I'm just saying BMW should be more flexible and supportive of its customers and it is VERY common knowledge that VERY few riders keep a superbike completely stock, especially one that is heavily restricted.

P.S.
I can even let goof it without a tune, I'm not looking to have 230 WHP, but only to remove throttle restrictions and take the engine to its full potential.

 

[MotoDocRR]

EURO SPEC in UAE just confirmed with dealer.

 

[Coyotegsxr]

I'm not 100% sure but I think we get the Euro Spec. I will double check. But I heard that while US bikes are the worst in terms of restriction, the Euro bikes have it too albeit to a lesser extent.

What I am 100% sure of, however, is that there is a severe restriction in the low-mid range in 2nd and 3rd. I know that because I know what a 1000cc should feel like under full throttle and my Daytona feels a lot more alive in that range. The power comes on at 9-10K on the BMW and then it's a rocket until 12-13 where it dips again. It's easy to discern.

I feel cheated because the warranty was one of the main reasons I chose this bike over the competition. And now according to my dealer there is nothing I can do to the ECU without voiding the warranty. I have asked many many times and this was the response I got every time. So I'm not sure what to do.
Yes what you're saying is true about they have to prove that the mods caused the problem in case it happens but that's not the vibe I got from my dealer.
I'm just saying BMW should be more flexible and supportive of its customers and it is VERY common knowledge that VERY few riders keep a superbike completely stock, especially one that is heavily restricted.

P.S.
I can even let goof it without a tune, I'm not looking to have 230 WHP, but only to remove throttle restrictions and take the engine to its full potential.

I wonder if what you’re experiencing is the anti-wheelie electronics associated with ABS. in short, when you crack the throttle wide, the ecu monitors the wheelie height (it will allow no more than about 100-150mm) before it meters the power to get the front back down. This will certainly feel like choking midrange when accelerating hard. When past that mega torquey mid bit and settled into acceleration, the choking comes off and away you go - all feeling like BMW have restricted the mid when it’s really the IMU making sure your ABS stays happy. That’s just a guess. What do other think?

 

[MotoDocRR]

I wonder if what you’re experiencing is the anti-wheelie electronics associated with ABS. in short, when you crack the throttle wide, the ecu monitors the wheelie height (it will allow no more than about 100-150mm) before it meters the power to get the front back down. This will certainly feel like choking midrange when accelerating hard. When past that mega torquey mid bit and settled into acceleration, the choking comes off and away you go - all feeling like BMW have restricted the mid when it’s really the IMU making sure your ABS stays happy. That’s just a guess. What do other think?

Thanks for your reply.
That is definitely a valid point. One that I have considered. What I do have to say that goes against that is that 1- I have set the wheelie control to the minimal setting in Race Pro (high wheelie possible). In that mode the wheel can come up quite a bit before the system intervenes and it will NOT prevent wheelies. In first gear that would amount to about at least 300-400 mm (i have tested it). In the same setting, in second gear, the front wheel doesn't even lift. Not even a little bit, so i don't think that will even trigger the anti wheelie system to kick in.
That said, I hope this will prove it once and for all because I will go test it in a little while. I will go full throttle in 2nd gear with wheelie control OFF. if the when does not lift with wheelie control off then surely it confirms that the throttle is restricted. Agree?
I will try to make a video of it too. This way you guys can tell me if the acceleration seems right to you.

 

[MotoDocRR]

I wonder if what you’re experiencing is the anti-wheelie electronics associated with ABS. in short, when you crack the throttle wide, the ecu monitors the wheelie height (it will allow no more than about 100-150mm) before it meters the power to get the front back down. This will certainly feel like choking midrange when accelerating hard. When past that mega torquey mid bit and settled into acceleration, the choking comes off and away you go - all feeling like BMW have restricted the mid when it’s really the IMU making sure your ABS stays happy. That’s just a guess. What do other think?

Done testing.
I did 4-5 tests in race pro
With
- Wheelie control completely off
- 2nd gear
- Full throttle from 3,000RPM to 12-13,000

Absolutely no difference
Front wheel does NOT get off the ground. It’s like a 600cc until 9-10K then there’s a boost until 13 and it is not so impressive.

If anyone here is saying this bike is not powerful enough to power wheelie in 2nd then there’s a real problem.

Edit
My tuned Daytona 675R with 120RWHP power lifts the front in second gear

 

[Coyotegsxr]

Hmmmmm that doesn’t sound right. In dynamic mode whacking the throttle open at 5000rpm in 2nd should result in initial low wheelie (just lifts) and then surge as electronics keep the front down (ish) whilst giving you all the power it can without the front rising. Ie. The IMU is metering the power. As the risk of a flip/mega wheelie passes you get less metering. The acceleration should be violent and exceed your experience on your 675R by some margin - I used to ride a 2012 675R with 122 dynoed bhp at the rear, till I high sided her to oblivion at Anglesey race track, so feel I can speak from a position of knowledge on this one. (God I miss that bike. What a front end!)

I would put her on a dyno. It should show great power delivery and no metering due to lift, as the front will be strapped down. That will suggest that the IMU is playing nanny on you and metering your sweeties on the road/track even when you think you’ve turned everything off. If the dyno results show a dip (beyond the usual Euro5 constraints) and metering, then you may have a mapping issue.

 

[MotoDocRR]

Hmmmmm that doesn’t sound right. In dynamic mode whacking the throttle open at 5000rpm in 2nd should result in initial low wheelie (just lifts) and then surge as electronics keep the front down (ish) whilst giving you all the power it can without the front rising. Ie. The IMU is metering the power. As the risk of a flip/mega wheelie passes you get less metering. The acceleration should be violent and exceed your experience on your 675R by some margin - I used to ride a 2012 675R with 122 dynoed bhp at the rear, till I high sided her to oblivion at Anglesey race track, so feel I can speak from a position of knowledge on this one. (God I miss that bike. What a front end!)

I would put her on a dyno. It should show great power delivery and no metering due to lift, as the front will be strapped down. That will suggest that the IMU is playing nanny on you and metering your sweeties on the road/track even when you think you’ve turned everything off. If the dyno results show a dip (beyond the usual Euro5 constraints) and metering, then you may have a mapping issue.

Hi and thanks for chipping in.

First of all the Daytona is the finest bike I have ever ridden and I'm in love with the thing! I still have mine back home in mint. condition and it is a proper beast by 600 cc standards. I have installed Bodis headers and a CR-T muffler by SC-Project, as well as an aftermarket air filter and velocity stacks. It is dyno tuned to perfection. I have had it since 2016 (purchased brand new) and it has never missed a beat! It has 45,000Km on it, always ridden like it was meant to be ridden. Love it!

Now back to our issue
For some reason it is hard for many people to believe or accept this issue with our bikes. I have seen this both on UK and US forums where it seems like everyone, except for the few who know what I'm talking about, is surprised about this whole thing.
Honestly i don't see why it is so hard to believe. It is ALL OVER the internet, even on these forums, and it is SOOO obvious how this bike is outrageously restricted in throttle opening, NOT wheelie or traction control, just pure throttle restriction whereby it has the final say when it will open the taps for you. Just go on youtube and check out the dyno charts. One or two may be lying? ok. But EVERYONE who has put this bike stock on a dyno has been saying the same thing about an OUTRAGEOUS dip in power in the lower gears at the low and mid range RPM and at the top as well. The graphs are shown on every video on youtube and they are all the same.

And if you don't believe them, just get on your bike and try it yourself. I have turned OFF all rider aids, set the bike to race pro and "max torque direct throttle response" mode before i did that test. Even if I'm thinking the anti wheelie is cutting in, I'm telling you the front wheel has NEVER lifted, not even by a centimeter. ANYONE except someone who has NEVER ridden a proper 1000cc will tell you that there's something amiss in that power delivery.

It is CRYSTAL clear to anyone who has ever ridden another liter bike and even a decent 600 without any of that digital nonsense.

I have ridden every single bike I have owned to its absolute limit, but also one of my friend's 2018 ZX10R and trust me if i get to the power band on full throttle on that thing in second gear it will throw me off and do a couple backflips before hitting the ground a 100 meters down the road.

Seriously this is a 210 HP bike. it should be an ABSOLUTE BEAST. And right now it is behaving more like a little kitten.

Also I don't see why I would have a mapping issue on a brand new, bone stock bike. It is not a fueling issue. It is a consistent and systematic throttling restriction. Clear as day.

I'm sorry I went on a rant there.
I will get this sorted out when I decide to do the reflash on this, that is, when I'm ready to forego whatever is left of my warranty. At that time i will come here and post my personal dyno graphs and hopefully more people will be convinced lol
Also my friend (the guy with the ZX10R) has just bought the same bike in lebanon and he is complaining of the same. He will be much quicker to dyno it for sure and I'll be sure to get the graphs here ASAP..

Until then
Cheers and ride safe!

 

[alex]

Did you not do a test ride before buying to see if you liked it?

 

[MotoDocRR]

Yes of course I did and I loved it and I still do.
But the test ride was limited to 30 minutes on the streets where the speed limit was 80 km/h.
You don’t max out or redline a 1000cc superbike on a test ride. You just test the overall feel and get an idea of what you are getting.
Also I had no idea about the warranty problem.

 

[alex]

Out on a limb. Maybe this thread / the video's from Mike Edwards will help you understand the bike better and why it feels like it's not giving you what you expected.
https://s1000rrforum.co.uk/threads/spike-edwards-s1000rr-hp-datalogging-information.14341/

I think it's important to note the electronics want to drive you forwards, not upwards, they give you what you need to do that.

 

[MotoDocRR]

Out on a limb. Maybe this thread / the video's from Mike Edwards will help you understand the bike better and why it feels like it's not giving you what you expected.
https://s1000rrforum.co.uk/threads/spike-edwards-s1000rr-hp-datalogging-information.14341/

I think it's important to note the electronics want to drive you forwards, not upwards, they give you what you need to do that.

That is interesting stuff because it is a way to see what we already know on a graph and understand it a bit better. Amazing tech really.
But the fact of the matter remains that in the case of throttle restriction felt on the BMW is sort of doing that PREVENTIVELY as opposed to the anti wheelie intervening AFTER or EXACTLY when the front wheel lifts. It feels like the bike hasn't got enough power to lift it. Compare what happens in first gear because they seem to have left that a bit de-restricted for us to be able to have some fun.
Note that anti wheelie is still active in reflashed bikes and does its job which is to CONTROL wheelies as/when they happen, and not prevent them completely before they do by cutting your power by half.

I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to say I don't like the bike, I'm in fact IN LOVE with it and that's why I'm so frustrated, like so many others, with this limitation.
I will eventually get it sorted and reflash the bike and then it will be THE PERFECT bike to have.

I will be sure to let you guys know how it goes with dyno graphs and all.

Thanks for the input and ideas and sorry if I sounded angry at times It's just the frustration.

Cheers!

Ram

 

[Coyotegsxr]

That is interesting stuff because it is a way to see what we already know on a graph and understand it a bit better. Amazing tech really.
But the fact of the matter remains that in the case of throttle restriction felt on the BMW is sort of doing that PREVENTIVELY as opposed to the anti wheelie intervening AFTER or EXACTLY when the front wheel lifts. It feels like the bike hasn't got enough power to lift it. Compare what happens in first gear because they seem to have left that a bit de-restricted for us to be able to have some fun.
Note that anti wheelie is still active in reflashed bikes and does its job which is to CONTROL wheelies as/when they happen, and not prevent them completely before they do by cutting your power by half.

I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to say I don't like the bike, I'm in fact IN LOVE with it and that's why I'm so frustrated, like so many others, with this limitation.
I will eventually get it sorted and reflash the bike and then it will be THE PERFECT bike to have.

I will be sure to let you guys know how it goes with dyno graphs and all.

Thanks for the input and ideas and sorry if I sounded angry at times It's just the frustration.

Cheers!

Ram

Hi Ram,

I think you want a different bike, if truth be told. Gixxer thou K5? You can wheelie them through the box from a power up in second (first is a bit brutal and can hurt ‘the old chap and his friends’ as it comes up rather fast). Stoppies? Braided hoses and HH sintered pads on standard discs and callipers will let you stoppie so your mates can see the oil filter whilst following you (or so I’m told by my mates).
Your S1000RR is efficiently German and eschews such coarse activities as stunting.
Have fun
Coyotegsxr.

 

[MotoDocRR]

Hi Ram,

I think you want a different bike, if truth be told. Gixxer thou K5? You can wheelie them through the box from a power up in second (first is a bit brutal and can hurt ‘the old chap and his friends’ as it comes up rather fast). Stoppies? Braided hoses and HH sintered pads on standard discs and callipers will let you stoppie so your mates can see the oil filter whilst following you (or so I’m told by my mates).
Your S1000RR is efficiently German and eschews such coarse activities as stunting.
Have fun
Coyotegsxr.

Hi Coyote and thanks for chipping in
Frankly I find your comment a bit petty and shallow, missing the entire point of the conversation.

I'm sorry but you have completely misunderstood everything I have said.
I have never wheelied a motorcycle or performed any stunts aside from the occasional fun power wheelie. Nor do I want to even learn how to wheelie because that's not my style of riding.
I have never said that I wanted a stunt bike or a brute like the ones you are describing. In fact my friend back home wanted to upgrade from a 2018 ZX10RR to an H2 and I actually convinced him to go with the S1000RR because it is the cutting edge of technology, handling, and efficiency. And he is now having the same complaints I have with the same stakes at BMW warranty loss. Copy / paste scenario.

All I have said is that this bike is restricted and here is the simple version because it seems difficult to understand for some

1- As a customer
I feel I am not getting my money's worth because I didn't buy a 210 HP Superbike to get 50% of its performance.
I also feel cheated because BMW in the UAE got so many to buy this bike by advertising a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty, while most of our competition (Ducati V4S, Yamaha R1M, Aprilia RSV4 Factory) were only offering 1 year. All of these bikes are sharper in power and miles more in line with a true superbike (Noo, not stunt bikes, super bikes for the track, and laptimes).
The warranty, along with with a competitive price and a service contract was maybe 50-70% of the weight in my decision for the BMW. So naturally when I hear from my dealer that you can lose your warranty if you do pretty much anything more involved than putting a sticker on the fairing, yes I feel cheated and very disappointed. ESPECIALLY when the competition is offering modification and tuning options under warranty.

2- As a rider
I am planning to take this bike to track and might make it a track only bike. So in answer to your comment regarding stoppies and wheelies on a geriatric K5, please understand what kind of rider I am.
What I do hate, as an experienced, fast, and demanding rider, is that my new superbike which is supposed to be one of the top performing bikes in the world at this moment, can be easily out-accelerated by a 600 cc middle weight in certain conditions, simply because it is THROTTLE RESTRICTED. I don't care what anyone says, this is NOT wheelie control or any kind of rider aid intervening. It is just a matter of you as a rider not getting what you paid for. You want to call that efficiency and be a brand faithful BMW rider who refuses to criticize them? be my guest. But I won't be that kind of rider.

If you're using your super bike for commuting and cruising around the city never getting past 40 MPH then you have no problem and in fact I suspect that's why most riders don't even realize the problem I'm talking about. Some get it. but the majority of people are completely oblivious to this.
The only way i can understand that someone doesn't feel the restrictions on this bike are if they are new to the 1000cc platform, new riders overall, or just casual riders who are just cruising around with no aim to have any form of aggressive riding.

Yes I am a demanding rider in that I want the performance and power to BLOW ME AWAY. I should have the right to expect and demand that from a 30,000$, 210 HP motorcycle. And it should, if you know anything about bikes, be sooo much more powerful.

So here's my answer to your comment. You have completely misunderstood what we have been talking about and once again, I am really in awe at how many people are just refusing to believe what's so obvious even when so many around the world are complaining about.

Yes at this point I do regret my decision to buy a S1K, simply because I would have obtained all of my demands from a V4S or an RSV4, out of the box. And they would allow me to tune the bike and install an aftermarket racing exhaust at their workshops, under warranty.
That said, I will be fixing this issue because I'm still happy with my purchase and as I've said before, I am in love with the bike for the exact reasons you have mentioned (German engineering and what not). BUT I REFUSE to ignore the rest of the equation, which is power on tap when I need / want it. And I hate BMW is because they are making me pay for it by forfeiting a 5 year warranty on a brand new bike.

 

[alex]

"Frankly I find your comment a bit petty and shallow, missing the entire point of the conversation."​

Uncalled for, chill out.

Your posts have read to many like you want that directness of feel with the throttle to be able to control wheel lift, I was thinking the same that you wanted something more analogue. The ECU is mapped to take your inputs, review the sensors and then decide what this scenario needs. It wants to go forwards so they DO limit power in lower gears.

If you want more pep from the RR that you love, without the map, try a 16T front sprocket, makes it feel quite a bit more lively.

"So here's my answer to your comment. You have completely misunderstood what we have been talking about and once again, I am really in awe at how many people are just refusing to believe what's so obvious even when so many around the world are complaining about."​

Not really sure what you want from us?
You may have a genuine issue which is holding the bike back. A dyno may help understand/prove it.

 

[bmwian]

I have a stock, USA spec 2024 M1000rr with 1800 miles and am having the same issues as the op. ... bike is VERY limited!

My 2012 s1000rr and 2016 zx10r are waaay faster

 

[alex]

According to the seat dyno or or verifiable data? The K67/66 have always been very linear, which can 'feel' slow?
I have no doubts the USA map is more restrictive than anyone (inc BMW) wanted due to the smog laws. Just curious, if you've measured it.

 

[MotoDocRR]

I have a stock, USA spec 2024 M1000rr with 1800 miles and am having the same issues as the op. ... bike is VERY limited!

My 2012 s1000rr and 2016 zx10r are waaay faster

Thank you sir

 

[bmwian]

According to the seat dyno or or verifiable data? The K67/66 have always been very linear, which can 'feel' slow?
I have no doubts the USA map is more restrictive than anyone (inc BMW) wanted due to the smog laws. Just curious, if you've measured it.

My 2012 s1000rr will loft the front wheel at 140 mph during spirited acceleration ...... my 2024 M1000 could never do this, in its OEM state!