Gen 3 Track Brake Set Up

[Carsonr6]

What do you guys recommend as a good track set up for your Gen 3 brakes?

Having had some one to one tuition recently it's obvious now that my weak point is my braking and it's something I'd like to concentrate on when I'm next on track.
I've just bought the Gen 3 so want to have a look at the brakes anyway.

What do you guys use?

How does the standard MC compare? Is it worth upgrading?
I'll be using the standard calipers unless there's a reasonable priced upgrade that's worthwhile doing?
What pads you using? I've used Z04s on my last Ducati track bike and they were perfect but as we know they aint cheap either and I've heard good things regarding TRW pads?
Is it worthwhile upgrading the discs?
Already got HEL braided lines.

Cheers

 

[mibridger]

Hi Carson,

I did a major upgrade on my Gen 3

I had a Brembo RCS19 Master Cylinder, Brembo GP4RX calipers with Z04 pads, Brembo T-Drive disks, plus I run Brembo RBF600 or 660 brake fluid.

I am planning to put all of the same on my new Gen 4, I kept them all, not buying again, well, the disks I will have to as they are different.

I would say try the pads and the race brake fluid first, I just like to upgrade my brake system and once you have, a standard setup is never good enough.

I know a lot of folks disable the ABS, but I have never felt the need to, and it's always there in case you need it.

 

[Carsonr6]

That’s a fair set up mate

 

[alex]

Pads + Fluid -> MC -> Brembo SuperSport Discs -> Calipers.

SBS DC + Brembo LCF600+ try that combo first. If you still want more then replace the MC with an RCS19. The M4's/GP4's are lovely upgrades but it's likely to be technique holding you back rather than the calipers. The cost of 8 pads on the OEM calipers is steep so the M4's can pay for themselves in that regard.

 

[Carsonr6]

Yeah, my technique isn’t great on the brakes to be honest.

 

[mibridger]

Next time I have tuition, I might ask to concentrate on braking, or I think you can have advanced tuition, but not at a trackday.

I used to practice braking on quiet local roads a long time ago, before ABS or any of the rider aids we have now.

My best was a 70MPH stoppie on my old Honda Fireblade, which had an upgraded brake setup that I adapted from a WSBK bike.

 

[Carsonr6]

I tried to do all my braking in a straight line and turn in on a closed throttle as Crafer describes on his Motovudu videos, but when I had one to one tuition with Peter Hickman at Alcarras he said the only way I’m going to get faster is if I start trail breaking to the apex and get on the throttle quicker.

I guess everyone has their own technique and it’s a case of finding out what suits you best

 

[bmwbadboy]

Fluid, Pads, MC, Callipers, Discs - in that order.

 

[baz]

I used Brembo M4 calipers(now for sale,with brake lines retaining ABS-PM,if interested)with SBS dual carbon pads or Performance Friction(both progressive feel)or EBC gpfax for a more aggressive feel.A decent high boiling point brake fluid is essential,general opinion is Castrol SRS,which I use, is the best though £55 per litre.On my first gen3 I had a Brembo RCS master cylinder though I didn't bother on my other gen3 as,to me,there was little difference.In my opinion,the ABS does not need to be off as I have never had a problem with it.

I am sure you have trail braked into a corner before now without realising i.e when you've outbraked someone or exceeded your normal entry speed!
Quite rightly,you should do what suits you best and build up gradually with trail braking,and,as Simon Crafar says reduce braking as lean angle increases.

 

[Carsonr6]

Yeah I’ve definitely trail braked before like turn 3 at Alcarras, i could manage it there more naturally than any other corner I can remember. I think I’m at that strange now where I need to stop trying to go fast and try and spend time on track addressing what I know is my weak point which is breaking if you know what I mean.

I have some morula RBF660 in the garage so that’ll do to start. The GPFAX pads were the first pads I thought of. I used them a few years ago on my R1 but wanted to see what other suggestions came up. Looks like it’ll be fluid and pads and take it from there.

 

[scooby]

I tried to do all my braking in a straight line and turn in on a closed throttle as Crafer describes on his Motovudu videos, but when I had one to one tuition with Peter Hickman at Alcarras he said the only way I’m going to get faster is if I start trail breaking to the apex and get on the throttle quicker.

I guess everyone has their own technique and it’s a case of finding out what suits you best

simon's way is safer generally speaking as it's tricky to balance trail braking and get right every time,but theres another train of thought (and this is how i've been taught for the last few years),the more force you have on the front tyre,the more grip it has,upto a certain point obviously,it's finding that balance,but once you get comfortable doing it,you will go quicker no doubt.

 

[Carsonr6]

Yeah I can understand that. it’s just putting the faith in the front and trusting it

 

[bmwbadboy]

simon's way is safer generally speaking as it's tricky to balance trail braking and get right every time,but theres another train of thought (and this is how i've been taught for the last few years),the more force you have on the front tyre,the more grip it has,upto a certain point obviously,it's finding that balance,but once you get comfortable doing it,you will go quicker no doubt.

That's what I was taught as well

 

[bmwbadboy]

I used Brembo M4 calipers(now for sale,with brake lines retaining ABS-PM,if interested)with SBS dual carbon pads or Performance Friction(both progressive feel)or EBC gpfax for a more aggressive feel.A decent high boiling point brake fluid is essential,general opinion is Castrol SRS,which I use, is the best though £55 per litre.On my first gen3 I had a Brembo RCS master cylinder though I didn't bother on my other gen3 as,to me,there was little difference.In my opinion,the ABS does not need to be off as I have never had a problem with it.

Thanks on perspective Baz.

What type of pads do you use on Gen4 now?

 

[baz]

Using SBS dual carbon at the moment.They also do dual sinter as well.The only issue I've found with the BMW calipers is the pad material isn't very thick so,consequently,the pads wear quite quickly.Next time I change the pads I will see if a thicker pad could be fitted,then see if any are available!

 

[scooby]

dual sinter are awesome pads,and last a lot longer than the DC ones,but your talking big bucks for them,same price range as the z04's.

 

[bmwbadboy]

dual sinter are awesome pads,and last a lot longer than the DC ones,but your talking big bucks for them,same price range as the z04's.

Aren't DS/DS-2 supposed to last longer than Z04?

 

[scooby]

hard to say tbh as the zo4's last a good while aswell,i never really noticed any difference between the 2 in terms of longevity and performance.
i do have a good brake set up,and i'm pretty much stuck with the DS pads (either sbs or brembo) as haven't seen any other compounds for these calipers,luckily i got a very good deal on about 7 sets so i'm good for a while

 

[bmwbadboy]

hard to say tbh as the zo4's last a good while aswell,i never really noticed any difference between the 2 in terms of longevity and performance.
i do have a good brake set up,and i'm pretty much stuck with the DS pads (either sbs or brembo) as haven't seen any other compounds for these calipers,luckily i got a very good deal on about 7 sets so i'm good for a while

how do you come across good deals? Im interested

 

[scooby]

knowing the right people at the right time

not a deal from a supplier,but direct from a race team,they are sponsered by SBS so get them "cheap".