Discharge

[needsmust]

My lithium battery is not what I?d hoped.

It was flat when I picked it up from the dealer. It?s needed 3 jump starts in the 3 weeks/600 miles I?ve owned the bike, twice from fully flat (blank screen), and once 4 days after a 100+mile ride where I turned the key, went to bike info and watched it drop from 11v to 8v in about 15 seconds.

It was checked at my run-in service and not discharging particularly quickly. I left with a BMW Batterieladeger?t Plus and advice to try charging it properly (not just with a long ride). Dealer confirmed it would be impossible to bump start. The battery terminals read 0v when it gets below about 8v apparently.

Strangely, I got a call from Datatool when the voltage dropped before my eyes, but none when it was completely flat. I read with interest the locked thread on removing the tracker - not something I?d do, but reassuring/worrying that I?m not the only one with problems. Surely I could hope for more than 4 days? What would I do after a MotoGP weekend in Europe?

I expected more from a lithium. I thought it was worth shelling out the extra ?200 for the weight-saving and reliability (rather than say, ?150 on Hockenheim paint), then plumped for the forged wheels too as part of the pack.

Before putting the charger on, I?m going to record the voltage every 24hrs after my long ride back from the dealer. Stay tuned.

 

[HertsTif]

Be interested to know how this goes, but my experience on bikes with Trackers (not just the S1K), is that they've all drained within 1-2 weeks of sitting still. Admittedly, this is my first Datatool tracker, I've used BikeTrac up until now (and rate it way above the Datatool), but I do believe the tracker is responsible.

However, doing a 100 mile ride, and dead 4 days later seems too much, unless you were pootling around at 2000rpm with the heated grips on maximum. So you may well have a different problem there.

 

[TheGodfather]

The battery is not the problem unless you have a duff one. I dont have the tracker and started my bike 2 days ago after sitting in garage for 6 weeks.
Is it charging ok ?

 

[HertsTif]

My Gen 1 would go 4 months without charging, and would start first time, every time. No tracker or alarm though. Every bike I've had with a Tracker has run the battery down quickly. Not saying that's definitely the case here as it does sound excessive, but you can't compare to a non-Tracker bike.

 

[TheGodfather]

I'm not comparing it, just saying I wouldn't blame the battery, unless it faulty.

 

[HertsTif]

OH sorry, I see what you mean, yes, I agree...

 

[alex]

My lithium battery is not what I?d hoped.

It was flat when I picked it up from the dealer. It?s needed 3 jump starts in the 3 weeks/600 miles I?ve owned the bike, twice from fully flat (blank screen), and once 4 days after a 100+mile ride where I turned the key, went to bike info and watched it drop from 11v to 8v in about 15 seconds.

It was checked at my run-in service and not discharging particularly quickly. I left with a BMW Batterieladeger?t Plus and advice to try charging it properly (not just with a long ride). Dealer confirmed it would be impossible to bump start. The battery terminals read 0v when it gets below about 8v apparently.

Strangely, I got a call from Datatool when the voltage dropped before my eyes, but none when it was completely flat. I read with interest the locked thread on removing the tracker - not something I?d do, but reassuring/worrying that I?m not the only one with problems. Surely I could hope for more than 4 days? What would I do after a MotoGP weekend in Europe?

I expected more from a lithium. I thought it was worth shelling out the extra ?200 for the weight-saving and reliability (rather than say, ?150 on Hockenheim paint), then plumped for the forged wheels too as part of the pack.

Before putting the charger on, I?m going to record the voltage every 24hrs after my long ride back from the dealer. Stay tuned.

It sounds faulty to me. The tracker should not drain it this fast. I park underground with no signal and the tracker can't get a signal so it drains the battery trying to dial home. In normal conditions it should last 2-4weeks unattended. Underground it's more like 2 weeks tops. I had BikeTrac reduce the frequency of dial home/signal triangulation attempts and this significantly reduced battery drain. I use a Shido LiFeP04 which is rated to 4ah. With those changes it lasts 4 weeks unattended. (I cycle between OEM battery and Lithium as there's no power at my storage).

 

[Richinio]

This may be of interest to you :-

https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery2.htm

Note the paragraph that reads "If the voltage of a lithium-ion cell drops below a certain level, it's ruined."

 

[alex]

I believe that not all Lithium batteries are the same

This is what a bike uses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery

"LiFePO4 batteries have a very constant discharge voltage. Voltage stays close to 3.2 V during discharge until the cell is exhausted. This allows the cell to deliver virtually full power until it is discharged, and it can greatly simplify or even eliminate the need for voltage regulation circuitry.

Because of the nominal 3.2 V output, four cells can be placed in series for a nominal voltage of 12.8 V. This comes close to the nominal voltage of six-cell lead-acid batteries. Along with the good safety characteristics of LFP batteries, this makes LFP a good potential replacement for lead-acid batteries in applications such as automotive and solar applications, provided the charging systems are adapted not to damage the LFP cells through excessive charging voltages (beyond 3.6 volts DC per cell while under charge), temperature-based voltage compensation, equalisation attempts or continuous trickle charging."

 

[Richinio]

I believe that not all Lithium batteries are the same

This is what a bike uses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery

"LiFePO4 batteries have a very constant discharge voltage. Voltage stays close to 3.2 V during discharge until the cell is exhausted. This allows the cell to deliver virtually full power until it is discharged, and it can greatly simplify or even eliminate the need for voltage regulation circuitry.

Because of the nominal 3.2 V output, four cells can be placed in series for a nominal voltage of 12.8 V. This comes close to the nominal voltage of six-cell lead-acid batteries. Along with the good safety characteristics of LFP batteries, this makes LFP a good potential replacement for lead-acid batteries in applications such as automotive and solar applications, provided the charging systems are adapted not to damage the LFP cells through excessive charging voltages (beyond 3.6 volts DC per cell while under charge), temperature-based voltage compensation, equalisation attempts or continuous trickle charging."

That is all true, but what I said still holds. Hyperion manufacture LiFePO4 batteries and their guidance is "The voltage of each LiFePO4 cell in the battery pack should not be drawn below 2.5v. Drawing voltage below this can cause permanent damage to the pack or make the battery non-recognisable to a charger."

 

[DrIoannis]

The voltage must not drop below a certain level. If it was flat it is not a good sign. I have used 4 until now and every single one, including one from far far East (China) was charged, when it arrived. Those batteries when they are not connected they hold the charge for a long long time.

 

[MrSmooth]

I don?t have a Li battery, but when you get that faulty sounding Li battery replaced and it should be under warranty, get a trickle charger. Leave it connected, it draws next to nothing power and keeps the battery in top condition. If you have to disconnect the charger, my rule of thumb is charge it one time per week in the winter if you don?t ride the bike and one time per fortnight in the summer. My traditional Pb Batteries last me at least 10 years each using that formula.

 

[needsmust]

Update:

It?s promising. Measured after long ride back from dealer with no other usage, purely by turning key and getting to bike info screen and leaving for 30 seconds:

24hrs - 13.0v
48hrs - 12.8v, flicking to 12.7v

We?ll see what tomorrow brings. I wonder if the battery charges better at >9k revs post de-restriction (optimistic, I know).

Thanks for all responses. Just to clarify, the dealer explained that the battery effectively protects itself by presenting 0v to the terminals when below about 8v. I bought the BMW battery charger at a slight discount (but still twice the price of an Optimate lithium charger) and was always planning to have a trickle charger.

Personally, I think they should come supplied with a trickle charger if the battery life is going to be anything under a fortnight with the tracker fitted. I?ll try explaining that to my dealer when they re-open.

 

[needsmust]

All hope lost:

72hrs - 11.4v, dropping to 10.7v over about 20 seconds before getting a message: ?Vehicle voltage low. Switch off unnecessary consumers?.

I turned the key straight away and just for fun will try again today (96hrs) before putting on charge for a couple of days and start again.

The dealer will hear all about it when their doors open again.

 

[HertsTif]

The is for keeping us updated.

And yeah, that's not right, even with a tracker, the drain is nowhere near that bad.

 

[alex]

Under warranty should be a quick fix

- Alex

 

[needsmust]

Hope so, Alex.

Nothing at all today. I?ve connected the BMW charger and got:

Charge 0%
I=1.0A
U=12.1V

then,

Charge 3%
I=2.5A
U=12.3V

then, 10 mins later,

Charge 15%
I=2.5A
U=13.0V

I'll leave it overnight.

 

[needsmust]

Apologies for boring you all with this; it will be handy record for me to whinge to the dealer later on.

Fully charged with BMW ?Plus? charger overnight - bike info reads 13.1v. I got an ?overdue service? message when I turned the key, which disappeared after I reset the date.

I?m at work tomorrow and had originally planned on taking the bike. I might just leave it disconnected from the charger and see what happens to the voltage over the next few days now it?s had a ?proper? charge.

As others have mentioned, it?s a bit disappointing that the BMW charger only comes with croc clips to a non-waterproof female cigarette lighter socket, with leads just too short to run to under the pillion seat.

 

[Ste M]

Ive got a alarm fitted and tracker, my bike has sat more or less totally, except one run, since the lockdown. no issues here at all as ive just been out to check it

 

[FRS463]

I had the alarm put on mine in October and had it serviced in December, went out on it in Jan and it spluttered to start, laboured turn over. It was 3degrees outside so stuck the heated grips on about 3 mins after starting bike. Anyway got to work, frozen hands and no heated grips.

That evening after leaving bike running for 45 mins all worked fine.

Is this down to a low battery and system prioritising battery over the grips?