DDC vs Aftermarket

[alex]

Theoretical Situation:
Say in 2017 I get a DDC equipped RR to replace the current steed.
I already have Ohlins forks and a BiTubo Rear shock (which is the 2015+ version modified by Buildbase) which fit.
There's no additional outlay just a choice. Who would stick with DDC and who would swap to the aftermarket gear that's sprung/tuned to my weight.

 

[bananaman]

Having had both, I would stick with the DDC.

 

[bananaman]

Having had both, I would stick with the DDC. Ohlins etc would have to be adjusted manually to any specific conditions ie rough road, smooth road, track, wet etc and only a compromise at that with no on the fly adjustment. DDC is fully adjustable without spanners for all conditions, AND on the fly. I know racers (with better ability than me) prefer to ditch the DDC but they have the back up technicians that have the knowledge and ability to get the best out of alternatives.
Also, the '17 will be more advanced than the '15 by then.
I just love it at the track when it rains and I just have to press a few buttons lol It's so much easier to try different settings without getting the spanners out....

 

[soofsayer]

Take out a demo bike and see for yourself. You'll either like it or hate it. The weather is good so it's the perfect excuse to get out on a bike.

 

[Westy]

Having tried a 1299S I was very impressed with that electronic suspension...
Having ridden the 16 for three hours on Friday I was gobsmacked with how it reacted i.e. doesn't dive under braking yet still feels plush.

The only option is to test ride when you have the Ohlins and Biturbo, however having added Ohlins on my Triumph I would stick with DDC.

 

[ryden2110]

I have to agree with everyone so far as well. My 1098s took some fettling and even then it was a compromise for myself.

The DDC has been nothing but accommodating towards myself and all surfaces ( haven't ventured on to track yet) #

But at the end of the day, its what you want out of it and how/when the bike will be used.

 

[mibridger]

Unless you are an experienced trackday rider in the top half of the fast group, you will be better to stick with DDC.

Only very skilled riders who feel restricted by DDC, can exploit the top end aftermarket suspension, as said above, you will either need a good understanding of how to set up suspension, or you will need an experienced suspension technician to help you if you go the aftermarket route.

 

[alex]

Nice to have a clear opinion in the poll I'd rather not feck about with a new one.

People will, possibly, say to sell the suspension separately but it will make the '12 bike stand out from others when it comes to selling the whole thing.

 

[fast_ryan]

DDC vs Aftermarket Suspension

DDC is very good for both road use and frequent trackdays and the speed at which you can make adjustments is excellent. I decided to persevere with DDC after spending an entire season learning and understanding its nuances as the feeling it generates, particularly at the front end, is different to that of traditional suspension. For Slow to Intermediate Group pace the DDC system is absolutely fine but if your running Fast Group lap times the DDC system benefits from the addition of a 2D front potentiometer which separates the compression and rebound stages of the front suspension and greatly aids setup. It is also immensely useful for datalogging purposes especially as the bike already has a rear potentiometer fitted as standard. My DDC suspension has also benefited significantly from a change of front fork springs, minor changes to fork internals and air gap alteration in order to generate more control and front end feel. The rear electronic suspension unit has never been an issue especially after a bit of experimentation with preload. I can now comfortably run some quite fast lap times but I don?t generally push to the limits on trackdays as simply put I?m not racing.

If I started racing again, at anything above club level, I would most likely remove it as it wouldn?t allow me to achieve the high level of fidelity that I would need to save tenths of a second on lap times. That or I would purchase a bespoke Wilbers DDC system as used in the German IDM Championship to great effect. Aftermarket suspension is unsurprisingly superb for race use providing you have a good technical understanding of the fundamentals of suspension setup as it will, and does, change at every circuit. I personally would not mix suspension brands and ensure that that I was running a matching cartridge kit and rear shock as they are normally designed to compliment each other.

Finally when compared to the HP4 the 2015/16 model DDC algorithms and overall damping is better so expect some form of minor evolution and improvement for 2017.

 

[roadrunner]

Hi Alex. As you know from our Moffat meeting earlier this year, I'm not happy with the suspension on my '15 S Thou. Just to fill in other members on here, this is the problem I have with the bike..... I am either fortunate or unfortunate, depending on your stand point, to weigh 63 kg wet through and about 73 kg in my leathers etc. The problem I have is that I can't achieve the rider sag stated in the manual, no matter how I try. I have read on other forums from riders in America, Australia and other countries, of their dissatisfaction with the DDC for the same reason, ie, unable to set the sag as per the book, and getting a very hard ride on anything other than a smooth road. Don't get me wrong, I love the bike and I love it on reasonable A roads, But I just can't come to terms with it on my favourite B roads. I find that if my wheels are on the road, then my bum is off the seat and if at any time both are making contact at the same time, my glasses are not perched on the bridge of my nose. It can make for some interesting riding, I can tell you. Now as I've said about the other forums and their dissatisfied owners of these bikes, I've seen lots of posts about getting the springs changed for springs more suited to the riders weight, but never have I seen anyone post that they have had this done and whether it improved the bike. I have had an ongoing discussion with Allan Jefferies, where I bought the bike, who have been very helpful in trying to resolve my issues with it. To cut a long story short, Michael Lion of AJ contacted me to tell me that they have at last found someone who could fit springs, front and rear, that were matched to my weight and that the DDC doesn't cause a problem to them. It all sounds great but I will have to travel about 250 miles each way, which I am prepared to do. My only concern is will I be jumping out of the frying pan if I get this done. My worries are that will the DDC work properly and will the system calibrate OK when it's all done?Can anyone confirm that they have done this to their '15, '16 S Thous, and if so, did it work? The firm that AJ recommended is HM Racing, Edenbridge, Kent. Has anyone on here had any dealings with them, I wonder? Sorry if I high jacked your your thread Alex

 

[mibridger]

Re: DDC vs Aftermarket Suspension

Hello Ry,

I would be really interested to hear who did your suspension work, I am generally happy with mine, but it could do with a service and some fine tuning.

Would you share who did your suspension work please?

DDC is very good for both road use and frequent trackdays and the speed at which you can make adjustments is excellent. I decided to persevere with DDC after spending an entire season learning and understanding its nuances as the feeling it generates, particularly at the front end, is different to that of traditional suspension. For Slow to Intermediate Group pace the DDC system is absolutely fine but if your running Fast Group lap times the DDC system benefits from the addition of a 2D front potentiometer which separates the compression and rebound stages of the front suspension and greatly aids setup. It is also immensely useful for datalogging purposes especially as the bike already has a rear potentiometer fitted as standard. My DDC suspension has also benefited significantly from a change of front fork springs, minor changes to fork internals and air gap alteration in order to generate more control and front end feel. The rear electronic suspension unit has never been an issue especially after a bit of experimentation with preload. I can now comfortably run some quite fast lap times but I don’t generally push to the limits on trackdays as simply put I’m not racing.

If I started racing again, at anything above club level, I would most likely remove it as it wouldn’t allow me to achieve the high level of fidelity that I would need to save tenths of a second on lap times. That or I would purchase a bespoke Wilbers DDC system as used in the German IDM Championship to great effect. Aftermarket suspension is unsurprisingly superb for race use providing you have a good technical understanding of the fundamentals of suspension setup as it will, and does, change at every circuit. I personally would not mix suspension brands and ensure that that I was running a matching cartridge kit and rear shock as they are normally designed to compliment each other.

Finally when compared to the HP4 the 2015/16 model DDC algorithms and overall damping is better so expect some form of minor evolution and improvement for 2017.

 

[alex]

FYI, I don't want this to be a focus on road vs track. DDC is meant to be enough do most things well but not everything brilliantly.
Just more the fact that I have suspension that's weighted for me and it IS a straight fit. Whereas the DDC will be weighted for anyone.
I'm lucky/unlucky enough probably be around the ideal weight of 90kgs suited up, if I breath in. So it's probably pointless effort...just wanted that to be agreed that it's not a waste to let the aftermarket stuff go.

RR - There's plenty of places closer than HM Racing to you. I'd personally speak to MCT in Suffolk. I think Buildbase BMW are up your way.

 

[soofsayer]

RR - you could also try having a dialogue with Kyle on here who is a forum vendor dealing in suspension setups, he is based around Newcastle.

 

[fast_ryan]

DDC vs Aftermarket Suspension

Would you share who did your suspension work please?

The DDC front fork springs were supplied by alpha Racing and all my suspension work to date has been completed by MCT.

 

[Sissymc7]

I like ddc n but still wish I d bought base model

 

[FastBike]

I was toying with the idea of going the Alpha Racing route but it's not cheap !

Complete Kit (Level 2) includes:

alpha Racing DDC Fork Springs (N/mm) BMW S1000RR (HP4, 2015-)

alpha Racing DDC Rear Spring (N/mm) BMW S1000RR (HP4, 2015-)

alpha Racing Front Fork Locator Ring with Integrated Spring (Red)

BITUBO Fork Oil SAE 0W30 1 Liter BMW S1000 RR

BITUBO SSW Steering Damper Kit BMW S1000 RR/HP4

2D DDC Front Suspension Sensor Kit (Plug & Play) BMW (HP4, 2015-)

$1,799.99

http://alphaperformanceusa.com/prod...sion-upgrade-kit-2-bmw-s1000-rr-hp4-2012-2015


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[FastBike]

Maybe I'll go for the sensor and take it from there ....

alpha Racing DDC Front Suspension Sensor Kit BMW S1000RR, HP4 (2012-, 2015-)

$ 759.99


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[fast_ryan]

alpha Racing

I have a set of alpha Racing Front Fork Springs, Fork Travel Indicator and 2D Potentiometer fitted along with some minor changes to the fork internals. I've not had to change the rear spring weight nor have I felt the need to change the OEM steering damper. For alpha Racing products you are better off using the European website as you are buying directly from them (or via Prime Factors Racing) rather than from the US subsidiary.

https://shop.alpharacing.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index

 

[FastBike]

Nice one, thanks for the advice RyS1000RR [emoji1360]


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[Sissymc7]

If you opt for a softer Spring will it have enough force to return the fork leg at fast enough return for ddc to work properly