2016 S1000RR SC Project Slip on + K&N

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Carlcouk

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Hi all,
Just fitted the SC project conic slip on to the standard headers (retaining the cats) along with a K&N filter to my 2016 S thou.

Could anyone tell/advise me if I also need to fit a Power commander to ensure correct fuelling? And if so could anyone recommend a good tuning shop in the Staffordshire area who would be able to fit and tune this in for me?

Cheers
Carl
 
Hi Carl, I've ordered the same exhaust, it should be with me next week, been waiting 6 weeks so far for delivery!!!! , I think you might loose power with the baffle in, if the baffle is out you should be free flowing and have no issue, I've been searching online for this info too. Get some pics up?

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Mine took a while to arrive, but it's worth the wait. It's a real quality bit of kit.

I've fitted the K&N filter but know these Gen 3 engines are quite sensitive to any fuel/air alterations, hence why I was trying to gauge (from experience) what if any fuelling controllers people had used (PCV etc).

I'll run it as is for the time being and see how it goes, but am considering sending the ECU to Brentuning in the US for remapping as apparently this is the best way forward with these new motors and ECU's.


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Mine took a while to arrive, but it's worth the wait. It's a real quality bit of kit.

I've fitted the K&N filter but know these Gen 3 engines are quite sensitive to any fuel/air alterations, hence why I was trying to gauge (from experience) what if any fuelling controllers people had used (PCV etc).

I'll run it as is for the time being and see how it goes, but am considering sending the ECU to Brentuning in the US for remapping as apparently this is the best way forward with these new motors and ECU's.


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I'm no electronics engineer but would someone explain to me how an ECU can be reflashed with GENERAL parameters without the bike? Every bike out the crate runs different to a degree, the more you change the more it's out hence dyno runs/remapping pcv etc.
 
Mine took a while to arrive, but it's worth the wait. It's a real quality bit of kit.
I've fitted the K&N filter but know these Gen 3 engines are quite sensitive to any fuel/air alterations, hence why I was trying to gauge (from experience) what if any fuelling controllers people had used (PCV etc).
I'll run it as is for the time being and see how it goes, but am considering sending the ECU to Brentuning in the US for remapping as apparently this is the best way forward with these new motors and ECU's.

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I don't know what difference you're expecting? An air filter & slip on make negligible differences. The Gen3 will barely notice. Way within the range of changes you'd see from barometric changes which they are designed to cope with. If you manage to get a little more air and out, it will only mean you soak up a little of the mapped in richness.

Basically you're trying to fix something that's not changed.

Now that's not to say a remap can't do things...but its wholly irrelevant to the mods you're doing.

Brentuning is case of iterative, map, datalog, send to them, receive tweaks back, upload, datalog, send results...repeat infinitum.
 
From what I understand, and my experiences within the 4 wheeled world, all new engines (euro 3 onwards) are mapped lean for emissions.

The Gen 3 & new 4 SK1 RR's are a case in point and so if you increase the amount of air coming in and subsequent exhaust going out, there will be a change to the 'factory' configured fuelling which on modern machines can cause issues, and in some cases sap power.

This is usually where a PCV/ piggyback fuelling system comes in to iron out any issues and rich up the fuel mixture.

The ECU flash is becoming common now on all modern 'digital' machines (cars &a bikes) as it access hidden parameters within the air/fuel control more accurately than the 'old fashioned' PCV type systems.

There is no requirement for he physical vehicle to be present as the tuning company who does the mapping, will have designed & tested the new 'code' which they develop by hacking the 'factory code' stored within the ECU. These parameters or code, are virtually identical across the board, so if you write new code for one model Sthou and get a certain result, then write the same code into another identical model (2015/2016/2017) for example, you will get the same or very similar results in terms of machine behaviour.

Hope that makes sense?

In addition, on the Gen 3 and probably 4 SK1 RR, a remap is usually pound for pound the most cost effective method of attaining serious performance gains.

This is also one of the reason for 'control ECU's' in BSB/Motogp etc. Such is the which craft that lays within!



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From what I understand, and my experiences within the 4 wheeled world, all new engines (euro 3 onwards) are mapped lean for emissions.
Only certain parts of the rev-range and under certain load conditions to pass the tests.

The Gen 3 & new 4 SK1 RR's are a case in point and so if you increase the amount of air coming in and subsequent exhaust going out, there will be a change to the 'factory' configured fuelling which on modern machines can cause issues, and in some cases sap power.

This is usually where a PCV/ piggyback fuelling system comes in to iron out any issues and rich up the fuel mixture.
Explain in detail where the change in air is coming from? A K&N doesn't flow better than the standard filter because it has a relatively large surface area, meaning the pressure build up and boundary affects that might slow a smaller paper filter down don't really apply to the S1000RR and its level volumetric efficiency. A slip-on is just a different shaped piece of tube with slightly different harmonics, again it's not going to make a VE difference. Removing the CAT though...that's when changes start to mount up.

The ECU flash is becoming common now on all modern 'digital' machines (cars &a bikes) as it access hidden parameters within the air/fuel control more accurately than the 'old fashioned' PCV type systems.
Eh? I think what you mean is that you can't adjust the timing with a PCV or Bazzaz unit. And timing is very important to burn. But you'll be pleased to know the RapidBike Evo does have a crank signal adjustment solution and so that can adjusting if you feel it's necessary. But don't forget you can do as much harm as good. Using the RCK1/2/3 from BMW these parameters are all adustable too, and yet timing changes are often limited to 1deg here or there as its quite well tuned by default. And the RCK (BMW's unlocked ECU Calibration Kit) is where you'd be headed if you were really needing tuning.

There is no requirement for he physical vehicle to be present as the tuning company who does the mapping, will have designed & tested the new 'code' which they develop by hacking the 'factory code' stored within the ECU. These parameters or code, are virtually identical across the board, so if you write new code for one model Sthou and get a certain result, then write the same code into another identical model (2015/2016/2017) for example, you will get the same or very similar results in terms of machine behaviour.
It doesn't have to be present for Brentune I agree, but it is an iterative process of many days. Uploading, logging, downloading etc.
Every engine is different, it's marginal but it's different, injector flow rates for instance - the point of tuning is to make the most of the one you have. It's NOT going to be as quick as going to a shop to have it done by someone there and then.
You seem to think the stock ECU can't adapt but it must. That's what the narrow band Lambda sensors and knock sensors are there for.
Consider Altitude. Air pressure has to be allowed for in the standard mapping (MAF - Mass Air Flow). If the ecu couldn't adapt the fuelling out of the crate, I could very well blow it up by simply riding up to 2 miles above sea level in another part of the world. That is a much bigger change than a filter and slip-on.

Hope that makes sense?
In addition, on the Gen 3 and probably 4 SK1 RR, a remap is usually pound for pound the most cost effective method of attaining serious performance gains.
This is also one of the reason for 'control ECU's' in BSB/Motogp etc. Such is the which craft that lays within!
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Not really - sounds like you're pushing a Brentune agenda. "..serious performance gains"? From the ECU? Maybe if you were decatting, fitting race cams...but then you could dump rotational weight for a game changer. There are no magic bullets. Midrange 4-6000 rpm is a bit flat due to emissions out of the crate. I fitted a Bazzaz after going with a decat and got smoother drive and improvements to the area under the curve, it was all very welcome, and it's removable.
 
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Only certain parts of the rev-range and under certain load conditions to pass the tests.


Explain in detail where the change in air is coming from? A K&N doesn't flow better than the standard filter because it has a relatively large surface area, meaning the pressure build up and boundary affects that might slow a smaller paper filter down don't really apply to the S1000RR and its level volumetric efficiency. A slip-on is just a different shaped piece of tube with slightly different harmonics, again it's not going to make a VE difference. Removing the CAT though...that's when changes start to mount up.


Eh? I think what you mean is that you can't adjust the timing with a PCV or Bazzaz unit. And timing is very important to burn. But you'll be pleased to know the RapidBike Evo does have a crank signal adjustment solution and so that can adjusting if you feel it's necessary. But don't forget you can do as much harm as good. Using the RCK1/2/3 from BMW these parameters are all adustable too, and yet timing changes are often limited to 1deg here or there as its quite well tuned by default. And the RCK (BMW's unlocked ECU Calibration Kit) is where you'd be headed if you were really needing tuning.


It doesn't have to be present for Brentune I agree, but it is an iterative process of many days. Uploading, logging, downloading etc.
Every engine is different, it's marginal but it's different, injector flow rates for instance - the point of tuning is to make the most of the one you have. It's NOT going to be as quick as going to a shop to have it done by someone there and then.
You seem to think the stock ECU can't adapt but it must. That's what the narrow band Lambda sensors and knock sensors are there for.
Consider Altitude. Air pressure has to be allowed for in the standard mapping (MAF - Mass Air Flow). If the ecu couldn't adapt the fuelling out of the crate, I could very well blow it up by simply riding up to 2 miles above sea level in another part of the world. That is a much bigger change than a filter and slip-on.



Not really - sounds like you're pushing a Brentune agenda. "..serious performance gains"? From the ECU? Maybe if you were decatting, fitting race cams...but then you could dump rotational weight for a game changer. There are no magic bullets. Midrange 4-6000 rpm is a bit flat due to emissions out of the crate. I fitted a Bazzaz after going with a decat and got smoother drive and improvements to the area under the curve, it was all very welcome, and it's removable.

Isn't that what I said ?? :biggrin-new:
 
Some interesting opinions, thanks for the feedback.

Oh, and I can assure you, I'm not pushing any agenda, merely asking a question and trying to explain how/why I came to asking it.

For info, an ECU flash, if done right can give notable gains, maybe not so much as total weight loss (new BST rims/full system+PCM/Bazaz etc) But it's a more cost effective option, and I was just offering that up.

So in conclusion... and to answer my original question... From the feedback received today, there is no requirement to fit a Bazaz/PCV or any other Fuelling 'aid' if running just slip on and K&N filter.

Question answered, thank for the help. [emoji41]


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How do I upload pictures on here?


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When you're writing a post just hit the picture icon in the Tapatalk app and it will access the photo library on your iphone then select your pictures.
 
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2016 SK1 with SC project Conic slip on. K&N filter/ HP levers & rear-sets/ carbon front & rear huggers/ carbon frame protectors/ Puig light smoke 'double-bubble' screen.


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Forgot to add: GB Racing full crash protection (engine covers frame sliders etc).


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I'll bet that's a bit easier on the ears than the stubby can that SC do,although I really like the look of the wee cans I doubt I could live with them on a daily basis.
 
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