3rd Gen '16 Plate S1000RR v HP4

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soofsayer

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Background:

I have had my HP4 since July 2013 when it was new. With 10,000 miles now on the clock, a dozen or so trackdays, and a couple of tours, I know my bike quite well.

Today I got the opportunity to extensively test ride a '16 plate s1000rr in standard trim with the cast wheels, delimited with 800 miles on the clock.

There has been a lot of chatter about the differences between the two bikes. As an HP4 owner there is always that question in the back of my mind 'Is the new sthou better?'. I was pleased to get the opportunity to make my own mind up.

First impressions.

Switchgear all as it should be, plus the cruise control switch (which I still find bizarre on a 197 bhp sports bike). Dash readout had more information on it, lean angles, brake force and a load of other stuff I have no idea about. It has a fuel mileage countdown to empty readout which is a useful addition. The rest of the stuff was nice to have but not really essential. BMW have pushed the envelope again in terms of menus and toggling through endless setup and setting options. If there is a 4th gen bike and the trend continues, it's probably going to have to be touchscreen or BMW might get sued for RSI by owners. Plus you'll need to go on a training course or part time degree to understand how to change the clock. Anyway, I digress.

The bike was already in race mode and it was time to get going.

On the road.

The first part of the journey was filtering and some speedy bits, traffic and then motorway. Everything felt very familiar, power was where it should be, good stuff. The quickshifter and downshifter worked very well. The quickshifter was smoother than the HP4, less mechanical feeling. The down blipper was very good too, although I found the bike needed to be at higher revs to work really well.

The exhaust noise on the bike is really good, there is no doubt. I prefer my HP4 de-cat full system grumble as opposed to the higher pitched hum of the 3rd gen bike, but as a stock system on a bike out of a factory the 3rd gen noise is very nice indeed. Adding in the nice down blipper farting/spluttering just adds more to the sense of occassion. I could happily live with that all day every day if, and it is a big if, the end can wasn't so damn ugly. How do the germans do it?

So far so good.

Getting up to speed.

On the motorway it became immediately apparent to me that the stock screen is pants for wind protection. I am 5ft 10" and had to tuck right down to get out of the wind blast, if this was going to be my bike then one of the first things I would do is put a double bubble screen on it. I had the same problem with the HP4, so on that basis there is no discernable difference.

After just over an hour of riding to my destination I concluded that the 3rd gen bike felt, and this is hard to explain right, slightly softer than my HP4. Everything about the 3rd gen bike is that little bit smoother on the road.

The full service.

So then it was time to give the bike the full beans on some private tarmac *cough*.

In race mode I used the same DDC settings as I would have used on the HP4 at this venue, -2 front, +1 rear comp and rebound. This bike didnt have a front fork sensor fitted (no surprise) so it was not going to give me exactly the same experience, but very close.

The tyres were K3s. Not ones I had tried before.

It became immediately apparent that this new 3rd gen bike is very much like the HP4 in this environment. It turns in quick, almost too quick sometimes. It has loads of power and revs freely. It will power wheelie in all the gears up to 5. The TC intervenes when required without spoiling the fun. There is enough feel in the front to know what is going on and keep pushing. I am far from being an expert but I couldn't tell the difference in the reworked geometry of the frame or the extra few bhp that was theoretically available. If anything the 3rd gen bike felt ever so slighty more manageable because of the blipper, although I found my left foot slipping and missing the gear lever on a few occassions, but that is rider error and not the bike's fault.

The lean angle readouts were interesting. Looking at the back tyre and the mid 50s lean the bike reported, I do wonder how on earth anyone can get to 59/60 without riding off the side of the tyre wall and crashing as there was nothing left to go at. Maybe lower pressures would have given those few extra degrees? Anyway, it was interesting but ultimately a glance at the tyre tells the rider the real story.

The K3s were very, very good. I was impressed with them, a match for the super corsas. More grip and stickier than the M7RRs but I question their durability. Apples and pears. Great tyre nonetheless.





So, choices.... HP4 or 3rd gen....

It just is not that simple. The 3rd gen bike is a fantastic machine, no doubt about it. If I was looking for a sports bike to buy it would be at the top of my list without a doubt. Fantastic package, great on road, great on *other* roads, lots of gadgets, just very very good. It does fast stuff, it does filtering, it does touring, all weathers. Brilliant.

But there is a but.

It does feel a little as though BMW created the 3rd gen bike and then thought about how to make it appeal to a wider audience by adding 'bits'. And that might be what niggles me.

The HP4 is a homogenated for road use track bike, and the sum of its parts make it feel like that. It has that DNA and when it starts up you get that tingle of excitement. It's a bit of a handful at times TBH. If, for example, you don't play the gearbox like its on a track it will hate you and make you look like a tw@t when it refuses to shift at the traffic lights when you've stupidly pulled up in third because you're not thinking ahead. If, for example, you want to sit doing boring speeds on motorways for many, many hours it will make you suffer long and hard for giving it such a boring job. But when you do get it all together and spank it, the HP4 is awesome. I don't know quite what it is but it seems a little bit sharper, rugged perhaps? Sprinkle on top of that the rarity and strong residuals, it feels a priviledge to own one. Just needs the blipper....

Either way, I'm not changing just yet. If my HP4 and I were permanently parted then my next bike would, at the time of writing, be the 3rd gen sthou.
 
I don't think it is 'more' homologated. I think the starting point for both bikes are at different ends of the spectrum, but I may be wrong. The HP4 came from the gen 1 then gen 2 bikes, they were designed for racing to get BMW into the sports bike market, the HP4 being the pinnacle of that development from WSB. My feeling with the 3rd gen bike is that BMW had now established themselves as a premium sports bike manufacturer so the remit for the retail product was to appeal to the widest possible audience rather than it being an afterthought. The 3rd gen is more refined as a tool for doing everything, whereas the HP4 is not.

I was a lot faster today than I was last year without any doubt, mainly due to track experience, weather conditions, tyres, and tuition. I deliberately did not time any laps because I was working on improving pace in sections of the course and working on technique. Perhaps in hindsight I should have got a few times in the bag to have a comparison for next time I do Croft.

Do you ride at Croft Jimmy43?
 
Gen 3s are cool and i love the extras they have over the gen 2 s1000 (im a huge fun of the cruise control) but if i was to trade up the way it would have to be a hp4 without a doubt
 
No more sore wrists with cruise control. Hasn't the hp4 got forged wheels?
 
No more sore wrists with cruise control. Hasn't the hp4 got forged wheels?

Yes Marzy, all HP4s come with forged wheels and full Akrapovic as standard. The only difference wheel wise is black on the standard HP blue on the Carbon (Competiton in USA).

Good write up Soofy, if I could add my thoughts without stealing your thread.
I have had the 2016 out for about a week, all in, as my dealer keeps giving me them to play on in the hope I will cave in. I had it out for the first few days and to be honest thought it was quicker than my HP, although I just didn't feel as connected with the bike. I was out with Beavis on here in September time on one and suddenly felt VERY connected and was for the first time really enjoying the new bike. I think after being used to the HP for so many miles (12k) that you do feel the differences in small geometric changes even though I am no Rossi.
I also found out that the 2016 bike was not any faster, but the reason it felt that way was because the exhaust was massively quieter than my own decatted and baffleless Akra. A point you touched on.
I have been pondering getting a Tyco rep for over a year now and still haven't made my mind up, which tells me my feelings because I usually just have to look at something and I just have to have it immediately.
When I saw a HP4 at Hokenheim in 2012 it grabbed me by the balls and screamed "you want me" like an Amsterdam Hooker.
So far the 2016 bike hasn't done that, but is unquestionably a superb and more road refined animal than the limited run HP4.

2p

JimmyMac
 
It has a fuel mileage countdown to empty readout which is a useful addition. My 2011 has this!.... Great write up Soof, I know my next upgrade will likely be a HP4. I think they look the absolute nuts in comparison with the Gen 3's
 
I don't believe there different points of the spectrum as the dealers explained the gen 3 is more advanced than the hp4, the hp4 was the special bmw when it came out ddc etc but now the gen 3 has it , and its meant to be improved, up down q/s etc different , better frame geometry,

I don't disagree with your dealer Jimmy. Great bike that is more advanced than the HP4.

I also found out that the 2016 bike was not any faster, but the reason it felt that way was because the exhaust was massively quieter than my own decatted and baffleless Akra. A point you touched on.
I have been pondering getting a Tyco rep for over a year now and still haven't made my mind up, which tells me my feelings because I usually just have to look at something and I just have to have it immediately.
When I saw a HP4 at Hokenheim in 2012 it grabbed me by the balls and screamed "you want me" like an Amsterdam Hooker.
So far the 2016 bike hasn't done that, but is unquestionably a superb and more road refined animal than the limited run HP4.

I think that's right Jimmy, there is a connection we make with these bikes and sometimes it's instant and you know if its right for you.

It has a fuel mileage countdown to empty readout which is a useful addition. My 2011 has this!

I might be mistaken but the 3rd gen bike displays a range figure all the time (when the display is toggled to show it) whereas on our bikes it only comes up when you are down to the last 35 miles or so? I did not spend much time playing with the menus so I might be wrong on that?

I have plenty of time to get some 'thumbling' of the options in over the weekend, my bike wont be fixed until some time next week when the replacement regulator arrives and is fitted. I am going to see what the weather is like and maybe get some more miles on the demo bike in the next couple of days, it is great fun :).
 
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Is it this that's being replaced Soof?
Regulator: 12317718422
B0007767.png


And is it covered by the warranty? As it's about ?200 :/
Or... ?114 from KFM https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/cms/en/genuine-spare-parts/bmw-spare-parts?itemid=12317718422

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good info on the 2015+ I glad for you that you're not left wanting one at the expense of your HP4.
 
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Hi Alex, I don't know if that's the part TBH, only what the dealer voicemail said. It's not something I have come across failing before, must be my bad luck, or good luck, depending on your POV.

It should all be covered under the extended BMW warranty, also the nice thing is that part will then be covered for 2 years by BMW regardless of the bike being under warranty.

Weather permitting I am going to get out on the demo bike this weekend again as I do like it a lot. Doing some of my usual runs on it will be useful to compare, although I already kinda know the 3rd gen is going to be better at dealing with some of the roads I ride simply due to its superior road manner refinement.
 
Ha - it's going to have double the mileage when it returns! Maybe even due another service! Have fun.

I'm likely to go to a 2016 in 2017...not sure what parts I'll be able to move over...
 
I've always thought the black and red scheme is the nicest they've come up with for the 3rd gen. That would be my spec :).
 
Soofsayer I see you decated yours did you need to do anything else once you done it
Did it still run smoothly?
 
Soofsayer I see you decated yours did you need to do anything else once you done it
Did it still run smoothly?

Hi steve,

Yes it runs fine. I got the dealer to fit the decat pipe and when I asked about a remap they told me the ecu would take into account the change and learn as it was not a big one. I am going to get the bike dynoed at some point when I find the time just to see exactly what it is doing and possibly have it tweaked but I'm splitting hairs TBH, it's sweet.

cheers,

Andy.
 
I went out for a 2.5 hour ride late this afternoon on the demo bike. No stress of getting from A to B like on Thursday, just out for a ride on a route I take when I get a couple of hours or so free. Tried playing in sport but it's never been for me when I'm having fun so it went back to race. I used the same ddc settings I use on the hp4. I did not set the preload on this bike, but I am very close to the stock weight criteria and only adjusted the hp4 by 1 click by memory so the difference in setup was slight.

I don't know if it's just me but this bike is soooo easy to ride, fast. So easy. All the inputs are smoothed out, the throttle system is like butter and holds exactly where I want it to, the QS is smoother, the turn in is sweet, there is no fighting with the machine, it does everything it is asked to do. Maybe I'm wrong but I could swear the bike feels slightly narrower in the seat and I feel slightly further over the front? Easier weight transfer, easier turn in, less lean angle required, that's how it felt. This was a stock bike without the riding pro package, without forged wheels, it went very well.

Only negatives:

I found the ddc struggling to cope with some undulations in the road, creating a bit of a resonance/bouncing along a couple of times, on roads that were not rough by any measure. I noticed this on Thursday too, not something the hp4 has ever done. Anyone else?

I had a couple of miles to run down the A64 before getting back to some more twisties, and I could hear Marzy's words haunting me, so I bloody well stuck the cruise control on - not a bad thing on that road with the camera vans always somewhere near. That was fine (I have CC on the GSA so am familiar with it), but, within a few seconds the abs yellow warning light came on, followed by the yellow engine management light. Ffs, deja vue, I thought, I've broken another bike! Carried on another few miles until I stopped for fuel and after the off/on no lights to be seen again, phew.

Then, 10 minutes or so later, I was carrying out an overtake when the bike, for a split second, had no drive, nothing, then it came back. Really odd, very scary when you are alongside a vehicle on the wrong side of the road and the bike just stops accelerating. You would assume it was the TC but there was no TC interference displayed, the bike didn't wiggle, I felt nothing, and no reason for it to engage - this was a 'gentle' overtake on smooth tarmac. I wasn't changing gear or making any inputs other than gently rolling on the throttle. Really weird, not experienced anything quite like that before.

Apart from those gremlins the 3rd gen bike really is very very good as many already know. I need to be back on my HP4 ASAP to make another comparison because the jury is now well and truly out. Snet on the 9th will be interesting.
 
It may be with the difference in rearsets you touched the gear lever without realising which cut the power...

I don't recall moving my feet at all, before or after, but it is possible.

I hope you don't mind my asking but have you upgraded your brakes (or anything else of note) for racing or gone with stock setup?
 
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