Suspension and brake lever feel questions for HP4

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I'm not sure I follow. If I can't tel lthe difference between 1 and 2 clicks and I need to be a professional to appreciate 3 or 4 clicks then what am I getting for my money. Are you saying all I'm buying is the placebo effect ? And if so how much does it cost ?
 
I'll have to have a gander I have known Dave Moss personally since 2009 so this is not dismissive of him as we sepak on a reguar basis, we have even run seminars here in the UK previously. But he has come away from a bricks and mortar suspension shop to only do what he does now which is on site remote tuning much like any track day support guy over here does I am told by a friend at Ohlins USA that he is not really well respected by the Pro guys be them racers or Suspension guys. Why that is I could not answer!

If you look at his service videos he does not do shocks and he only ever does fork fluid changes in forks, he does not go into revalving or how to revalve ever, he has pugged a few other previously-I remember he did that with the R1 a few years ago.

He is big on educating people about tyres and is well respected by a few of the manufacturers. Some of his methodology from an engineering/fluid dynamics aspect can be incorrect but not because he does not know, but because he is trying to plug the gap and provide real everyday people with real everyday solutions they can do themselves. So yes, ultimately in a cartridge fork you should only use 5W fluid and if the damping is inappropriate you should look to get a proper revalve. In reality lots of people can not afford even a revalve of their stock internals (and again in reality so many people do not even bother to have their suspension serviced), so they try a heavier grade fluid. Yes it provides benefit of increased damping but it also has negative effects which in reality outweight the pro of increased damping.

Now here is a question, 1/4 of a turn on the butt dyno or was he doing a static push test, depending upon where the parabolic needle sits in the bleed orifice of the shaft will depend how much and at what point the adjuster has greatest effect.

What do i mean by this? Well imagine a needle, the more that needle is plugging the hole the less the fluid can flow. Now, that needle will have a taper and this taper will thus allow various fluid flow thru the bleed hole dependent upon its position within the hole. As you wind the adjuster out and slow down or soften the damping the needle is moved out of the hole, so the hole being plugged becomes less restricted, thus more fluid can flow.

Now depending upon the design of the needle for which stock needles are notorious for being shaped like a door wedge and aftermarket needles being far greater tapered, a needle which is near the end of its adjustment range on the soft/fast side will have far less effect for 1 click than it will when it is at the hard/slow side. One of the benefits of aftermarket kit and one of the reasons K-Tech produce the Flow Control Valve/Compressin adjuster for forks is to replace that stock wedge like needle with one of a finer taper so that when you adjust the damping you have a much more linear adjustment click to click. K-Tech are the only manufacturer that produce a new needle for the rebound assembley with their fork piston kits, the needle in part is one of the things that gives the suspension fork or shock its range of adjustability.

So for that F3 id need to see the video, there are alot of variables including how old the fluid is, the design and taper of the needle. You may or may not be surprised at some of the tricks the Ohlins do to the forks and shocks that come on stock bikes, some of the tricks on some models in some cases completely make the forks or shock unadjustable!

I could sit and talk about this all day, you will never get rid of all the myths and rumours surrounding suspension but its always good to have a genuine unbiased conversation and get people engaged in the topic, without trying to hard sell something. An issue I see on social media all the time.
 
Have you seen Dave Moss' recent video on the F3 review? 1/4 turn made a lot of difference on the rebound which surprised me. Thought it would take a lot more adjustment to make any noticeable change

1 click on an Ohlins is not the same as a quarter turn on an OEM. It's apples and oranges.
 
SSR Suspension dependent upon its position within the hole. As you wind the adjuster out and slow down or soften ?

So for that F3 id need to see the video, there are alot of variables including how old the fluid is, the design and taper of the needle.


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BTW there's a guy on here thats got an F3, why don't I ask him if you'll look at his suspension Mark

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Have you seen Dave Moss' recent video on the F3 review? 1/4 turn made a lot of difference on the rebound which surprised me. Thought it would take a lot more adjustment to make any noticeable change
I watched that in full...very interesting.

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"As you wind the adjuster out and slow down or soften the damping the needle is moved out of the hole, so the hole being plugged becomes less restricted, thus more fluid can flow."

Typo, That should read, 'as you wind the adjuster out to speed up or soften the damping response, the damping needle position moves allowing increased volume of fluid which can flow thru the bleed ports.'

Same for turning it in which as we know would increase resistance, making damping slower or stiffer due to less flow thru the bleed ports.
 
Just a update on here guys ive sent my forks and shock to Mark at SSR to work his magic and will let you know how i got on when i receive them back

What im having done

K-Tech internals fitted
K-Tech DDS Pro
Also having the fork stanchions coated and a few other bits done
 
Stanchions are being TiN coated in Charcoal Black and the fork feet are being Ceracoated in Satin black.
 
Yes, PVD is the proper name for the coatings and Titanium Nitride is the coating used on forks and is not the DLC (Diamond like coating) as found on the ZX10R fork etc although I do offer the DLC Coating but it is more expensive. A link to the process can be found here What is PVD Coating & Finish ? Physical Vapor Deposition (vaportech.com) and here 4 Things to Know About PVD Coating | Kloeckner Metals Corporation

The benefit is reduced stiction, which aids in a better performing fork but is not something you would feel as a rider so most people who have it done do it for aesthetics. Basically we are trying to reduce the friction between the guide bushes and the stanchion, some of the MX GP teams go as far as shimming guide/slide bushes in forks to get tighter tolerences because in the longer forks found in off-road bikes the worse the effect of lateral forces are and the more they deflect under lateral loads.

Fork Coatings (ssr-suspension.uk)

Alot of the offroad guys like the Rainbow TiN coating and some like Kashima but that can only be done in Japan and is serious money. The company I used to deal with went bump and I have yet to find a good coating company that can offer the correct variant. Showa use an emerald coating on their factory WSB forks, its like a purpleish blue, again you can not get it done in the UK.

The picture below is a pair of MX forks which were ceracoated on the feet, and TiN coated charcoal black on the stanchions, also re-anodised the slide tubes.

143263625_3575369919374522_4526157772308476057_o.jpg
 
This will divide opinion on the spring colour choice

bd458c1e6e7d20f2f624d56eb107493f.jpg



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My understanding of Kashima is that it's for aluminium tubes only as found on mountain bikes. Also, splitting the lowers from the stanchions on USD forks gnarls the threads, best to upgrade the forks.
 
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