Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: Suspension and brake lever feel questions for HP4

  1. #21
    Standard Member Mellorp23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Manchester
    Riding
    HP4
    Posts
    10
    Thanked: 8

    Re: Suspension and brake lever feel questions for HP4

    I'm not sure I follow. If I can't tel lthe difference between 1 and 2 clicks and I need to be a professional to appreciate 3 or 4 clicks then what am I getting for my money. Are you saying all I'm buying is the placebo effect ? And if so how much does it cost ?

  2. #22
    Forum Vendor SSR Suspension's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    32
    Thanked: 21

    Re: Suspension and brake lever feel questions for HP4

    I'll have to have a gander I have known Dave Moss personally since 2009 so this is not dismissive of him as we sepak on a reguar basis, we have even run seminars here in the UK previously. But he has come away from a bricks and mortar suspension shop to only do what he does now which is on site remote tuning much like any track day support guy over here does I am told by a friend at Ohlins USA that he is not really well respected by the Pro guys be them racers or Suspension guys. Why that is I could not answer!

    If you look at his service videos he does not do shocks and he only ever does fork fluid changes in forks, he does not go into revalving or how to revalve ever, he has pugged a few other previously-I remember he did that with the R1 a few years ago.

    He is big on educating people about tyres and is well respected by a few of the manufacturers. Some of his methodology from an engineering/fluid dynamics aspect can be incorrect but not because he does not know, but because he is trying to plug the gap and provide real everyday people with real everyday solutions they can do themselves. So yes, ultimately in a cartridge fork you should only use 5W fluid and if the damping is inappropriate you should look to get a proper revalve. In reality lots of people can not afford even a revalve of their stock internals (and again in reality so many people do not even bother to have their suspension serviced), so they try a heavier grade fluid. Yes it provides benefit of increased damping but it also has negative effects which in reality outweight the pro of increased damping.

    Now here is a question, 1/4 of a turn on the butt dyno or was he doing a static push test, depending upon where the parabolic needle sits in the bleed orifice of the shaft will depend how much and at what point the adjuster has greatest effect.

    What do i mean by this? Well imagine a needle, the more that needle is plugging the hole the less the fluid can flow. Now, that needle will have a taper and this taper will thus allow various fluid flow thru the bleed hole dependent upon its position within the hole. As you wind the adjuster out and slow down or soften the damping the needle is moved out of the hole, so the hole being plugged becomes less restricted, thus more fluid can flow.

    Now depending upon the design of the needle for which stock needles are notorious for being shaped like a door wedge and aftermarket needles being far greater tapered, a needle which is near the end of its adjustment range on the soft/fast side will have far less effect for 1 click than it will when it is at the hard/slow side. One of the benefits of aftermarket kit and one of the reasons K-Tech produce the Flow Control Valve/Compressin adjuster for forks is to replace that stock wedge like needle with one of a finer taper so that when you adjust the damping you have a much more linear adjustment click to click. K-Tech are the only manufacturer that produce a new needle for the rebound assembley with their fork piston kits, the needle in part is one of the things that gives the suspension fork or shock its range of adjustability.

    So for that F3 id need to see the video, there are alot of variables including how old the fluid is, the design and taper of the needle. You may or may not be surprised at some of the tricks the Ohlins do to the forks and shocks that come on stock bikes, some of the tricks on some models in some cases completely make the forks or shock unadjustable!

    I could sit and talk about this all day, you will never get rid of all the myths and rumours surrounding suspension but its always good to have a genuine unbiased conversation and get people engaged in the topic, without trying to hard sell something. An issue I see on social media all the time.

  3. #23
    Forum Moderator alex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    London and Norfolk
    Riding
    2017 S1000RR Grey
    Posts
    10,035
    Thanked: 3552

    Re: Suspension and brake lever feel questions for HP4

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggle View Post
    Have you seen Dave Moss' recent video on the F3 review? 1/4 turn made a lot of difference on the rebound which surprised me. Thought it would take a lot more adjustment to make any noticeable change
    1 click on an Ohlins is not the same as a quarter turn on an OEM. It's apples and oranges.

  4. #24
    Forum Vendor SSR Suspension's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    32
    Thanked: 21

    Re: Suspension and brake lever feel questions for HP4

    Exactly that Alex, which is the short answer to my long winded explanation above, lol...

  5. #25
    LIFETIME FORUM MEMBER stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Dumbarton, Scotland
    Riding
    HP4, ZX10R, F3 800
    Posts
    7,291
    Thanked: 2409

    Re: Suspension and brake lever feel questions for HP4

    SSR Suspension dependent upon its position within the hole. As you wind the adjuster out and slow down or soften ?

    So for that F3 id need to see the video, there are alot of variables including how old the fluid is, the design and taper of the needle.


    ......



    BTW there's a guy on here thats got an F3, why don't I ask him if you'll look at his suspension Mark

    Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by stuartb; 22nd January 2021 at 09:13 PM.

  6. #26
    LIFETIME FORUM MEMBER stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Dumbarton, Scotland
    Riding
    HP4, ZX10R, F3 800
    Posts
    7,291
    Thanked: 2409

    Re: Suspension and brake lever feel questions for HP4

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggle View Post
    Have you seen Dave Moss' recent video on the F3 review? 1/4 turn made a lot of difference on the rebound which surprised me. Thought it would take a lot more adjustment to make any noticeable change
    I watched that in full...very interesting.

    Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

  7. #27
    Forum Vendor SSR Suspension's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    32
    Thanked: 21

    Re: Suspension and brake lever feel questions for HP4

    "As you wind the adjuster out and slow down or soften the damping the needle is moved out of the hole, so the hole being plugged becomes less restricted, thus more fluid can flow."

    Typo, That should read, 'as you wind the adjuster out to speed up or soften the damping response, the damping needle position moves allowing increased volume of fluid which can flow thru the bleed ports.'

    Same for turning it in which as we know would increase resistance, making damping slower or stiffer due to less flow thru the bleed ports.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •