Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginners

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MrSmooth

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Okay, I am writing this because I found the bike manual just too difficult to understand. I am also repeating most people's advice here as not to change the ride height front and back.


And for all us tall and weight challenged large chaps who stand in front of the mirror and see a vague resemblance to the greatest sports bike racers .... ahhemm! I am 145kg, yes a 6ft 3" fat barsteward. But the stock setup from new and out of the crate is bone shakingly hard for me too. But I needed a beginners guide to my S1000RR with EAS to help set it up for me


Here's a link www.3dman.com/Tutorials/suspensions.htm for something that my son says is easy to comprehend (he who has a degree in Motorcycle and Motor Sport Engineering - but do you think I could get more than 10 minutes of his time on this? ....)


We start by making measurements before and after Spring Preload changes to the bike, then ride the bike and make more changes using the on-board DDC electronics.


FIRST - use your camera to take a picture of the front (Right hand fork top) and rear Spring Preload black Adjuster nut (same size and colour nut above the rear swingarm) before you made any changes. Make sure you can count the number of threads showing from a side angle of the bolts in your photographs.


We start with measuring the Sag with the bike as per factory settings
1. Take two long cable ties and strap them firmly around the top of the forks where the fork tubes disappear into the slider. As you sit on the bike the cable ties will slide down the fork tubes and we are going to measure that movement as a distance travelled from the edge of the slider
2. Turn on the ignition ? very important
3. Stand the bike upright with no weight on the suspension, with a long ruler or equivalent (you can even use a plain stick) measure the bike at the pillion foot pegs between the floor and the same point on each pillion foot peg on each side
4. Sit on the bike, get someone to firmly hold the bike upright so that you can get both feet on the foot pegs, and assume your normal riding position. Start the Engine and read page 71 of the manual
5. Put your feet down lightly and support the bike, get your colleague to now measure the distance from the floor to the pillion foot pegs - the difference between the two recordings is the rear sag.
6. Get off the bike, sit the bike on the side-stand. Turn off the engine leave the ignition on.
7. Measure the Sag at the front (the new distance travelled from the slider to the top of the cable tie as it has moved down the fork tube)
8. Turn off the ignition
9. Record the front and rear Sag - firstly this is our base or 'stock' setting - You are aiming for a sag of 10-15mm on the front forks and 8-12 mm at the rear of the bike


Use the tool in the bike's tool kit to wind the Preload Adjuster nut on the front and back Clockwise (to stiffen the suspension) or out or anti-clockwise (to soften the setting - to give you more sag if you are a lighter weight than me)


Repeat steps 1-9 above after making the adjustment - until you get the desired sag readings (10-15mm front and 8-12mm rear sag) - when you reach the desired Sag - remove the cable ties on the front forks


Now - we have to recalibrate the bike Ride Height Sensor BEFORE you ride anywhere - go to page 111 on the Rider's Manual 06.2016 1st Edition, 01 and try and decipher it...
a. Turn on the bike ignition
b. Put the bike into Sport Mode and navigate to the DDC Setup Menu
b. Follow the DDC Setup instructions to calibrate the bike Ride Height Sensor first (page 118) -
c. Exit the menus.
d. Turn off the bike
e. Go ride the bike in Sport Mode having first read the guide at http://www.3dman.com/Tutorials/suspensions.htm and decide how you want to soften or harden your ride with the DDC electronics - don't worry, you can reset everything to factory settings if you go the wrong way. BTW most of my settings are -1 to -3 and I am now getting closer to a smoother ride.


Please feel free to amend this post


Mr Smooth (aka Steve)
 
I feel your pain Mr Smooth, it’s all far too much like hard work to engage with the technicalities of the interface, I have no patience with ‘menus’ that always seem to frustrate. However, I’m 5’11’’, around 93kg wet, possibly 110 suited up, and the S1 seems spot on for me from the factory in terms of sag/compression/rebound. Sport on the road is absolutely fine, race on the track is ace too. I can’t fault it. What are you trying to achieve here? I can’t believe that it’s ‘bone shaking key hard’ unless there’s a fault somewhere? Mine is very plush, but firm when you need it. What kind of riding are you doing??
 
Zxcv12 - I've only done 500 miles so far, I am finding that the bike is really uncomfortable on rough A and B roads, the frequency of the bumps at national speed limit 60-70 mph are really jarring to me. Smooth A and B roads or dual carriageways are absolutely fine, but the slightest uneven road surfaces where road repairs have been made etc are just doing me in - I ride in Hants, Berks and Surrey. The roads surfaces are not great and I want to gain more confidence and relax a little more. The changes I have made are making a difference, I am determined to keep making more DDC setup changes to get the suspension to work for me a little more. It is rebound and compression damping I am trying to adjust. I had to stiffen the preload as I had 28mm of Sag in the front and 18mm in the rear as delivered.
 
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I feel your pain Mr Smooth, it’s all far too much like hard work to engage with the technicalities of the interface, I have no patience with ‘menus’ that always seem to frustrate. However, I’m 5’11’’, around 93kg wet, possibly 110 suited up, and the S1 seems spot on for me from the factory in terms of sag/compression/rebound. Sport on the road is absolutely fine, race on the track is ace too. I can’t fault it. What are you trying to achieve here? I can’t believe that it’s ‘bone shaking key hard’ unless there’s a fault somewhere? Mine is very plush, but firm when you need it. What kind of riding are you doing??
just to clarify, I don’t understand how it can be set up too hard from stock for your weight, I’m much lighter, it’s fine. I’d have thought from your weight it could only be too soft and bouncy, not rock hard, something is wrong here!
 
I wouldn't describe myself as a fast rider, we will see. It gets the first oil change next month, I'll ask that they have ride to check that it isn't too stiff for them. I have a riding buddy who is about 80kg with a 2016 S1000R without EAS with stock settings and he thinks it is a harsh ride on the same roads too.
 
Zxcv12 - I've only done 500 miles so far, I am finding that the bike is really uncomfortable on rough A and B roads, the frequency of the bumps at national speed limit 60-70 mph are really jarring to me. Smooth A and B roads or dual carriageways are absolutely fine, but the slightest uneven road surfaces where road repairs have been made etc are just doing me in - I ride in Hants, Berks and Surrey. The roads surfaces are not great and I want to gain more confidence and relax a little more. The changes I have made are making a difference, I am determined to keep making more DDC setup changes to get the suspension to work for me a little more.
Ah ok, well yes Surrey roads are shite, I’m there all the time! You’ll need a lot more time on the bike before considering suspension changes imo. A little lift on the legs over bumps (you are reading the road, right?) will help the bike cope. But, it’s a road legal race bike. Suck it up and use it for what it’s designed for or buy a GS!
 
Hi mr smooth.

I got really confused reading your first post, I think the problem here is too much information from multiple sources. Setting the static sag on the bike is fairly straight forward as per the manual and takes a few minutes. You need to ensure you recalibrate the ddc once you have made any adjustments. Have you followed the steps in the manual, i.e. measure the sag with the ignition on etc?

Have you put a cable tie on one of your front forks to see how much travel the suspension is using? You may be bottoming out due to the settings/weight or getting no travel if the ddc is not working.

Either way the ride should not be bone jarring if the static has been set correctly and the ddc is working correctly.
 
Okay, this whole debate about preload confuses me...

Sag in the Front should be between 10mm and 15mm with a drivers weight of 85kg.

But how can I set the correct sag (im at 20mm now) if the springs doenst get stiffer with the changing preload (thats how i understood it)? Meaning they still require the same force - lets say 10kg force for a 1mm travel but we just can change the geometry of the bike. So how can I get the correct sag with the OEM springs?
 
Alex87 is asking the right questions. I'm afraid this post is somewhat misleading but understandably so because the manual is BS on this subject.
increasing or decreasing spring preload does not make the suspension stiffer or softer as spring rates are unchanged. All you are doing by increasing preload is compressing the springs prior to applying your body weight. This has the effect of increasing the ride height of the bike prior to sitting on it so that when you do so, it settles back down in the correct position and affords you the optimum geometry and suspension travel without bottoming. If your ride is too hard, the only option is softer spings (which is a no no, given your barsteward status) or softer DDC setting which I believe would be equally misguided - it is possible you are bottoming out or more likely, the suspension is simply hard because this is a sport bike and not a Parker Knoll recliner. I suspect earlier S1K bike manuals specified sags differently but the 2015 and I suspect later models too, require you to set the negative spring displacement to 10-15mm front and 8-12mm rear. Put simply, this is the amount the bike compresses when you sit on it and will be independent of preload settings. Indeed the negative spring displacement is a function of spring rates, rider mass and nothing more and thus I SUSPECT AN ERROR IN THE MANUAL DUE TO TRANSLATION. However, let's consider a worked example
Assume a sag measurement of 500mm (arbitrary made up figure) at the rear and when your 8KG rider sits on the bike, it compresses to 490mm - NSD is 10mm as per manual. Mr Fatbarsteward now sits on the bike and measures 420mm - NSD is 80mm. The problem is, too much rear suspension travel has been used up and you are at risk of bottoming out and so you dial in more preload. You now measure sag and find that it has gone from 500mm to 570mm and the bike sitting higher. Mr FBSD now sits on the bike and sag is found to be 490mm. NSD has remained unchanged at 80mm and will do so regardless of whatever preload is dialled in as it is a function of spring rates and rider weight - nothing else. Having increased preload,you will now need to increase compression and rebound damping to compensate for the increase in sprung mass.
Not only is the manual is wrong it is also very poorly written and highly confusing when it comes to suspension settings
 
I don?t want to add to the confusion of sag but it?s not that hard and the manual is correct in my view.

This is my take on it.

The idea is to use the centre third of the suspension travel so it has room to compress and extend as you ride, and ensure the tyre stays in contact with the road/ track.
That?s the theory.
The manual has given you figures of Rider sag to aim for and taken the calculations out of it.
These calculations are;
Max extended suspension length - compressed suspension length with rider = rider sag.
Static sag is the same but with bike and not important in my view as BMW will already have worked on this. However, you should have a small amount of compression to the suspension with the bike is at rest supporting its own weight. If not then your using too much preload and the springs are not right for you. Try lifting the tail unit. No lift no sag!

Some like things set stiff others soft, but that?s really damping and is another subject and I?m almost out of wine!

Spring rate.
This is the load or force needed to compress the spring one millimetre. This is standard in uniform spring rate springs ( coils all the same length along the spring),but increases in progressive ones. I.e. the coils get tighter along its length. We have uniform ones. I?m sure someone will correct me!

So if a spring rate is 10kg per mm, then for an 80kg man ignoring bike( static sag) it would compress 8mm, when he sits on the bike.
If a pillion sat on the bike and added another 80kg this would add additional compression of 8mm. Making a total of 16mm suspension compression and risk the suspension bottoming out over bumps.

If you added 8mm of preload then the suspension should not compress when the 80kg rider sits on the bike as the load has be added already with the preload. The suspension travel will still be the same as with no rider.
If the pillion now sits on the bike the additional 80kg will now compress the suspension 8mm.
So the additional preload will give the same suspension compression for the rider and pillion, as the single rider without preload.
The ride height will not change as this will be constant.

Equally if a rider of 80kg gives the manual ideal setting of 8mm sag at zero preload.
Then a 110kg rider will need 2mm preload to achieve the same 10mm sag. He is 20kg heavier and the spring will compress an additional 2mm making his sag 10mm without preload. The 2mm preload will compress the spring the additional amount.

See simples!


If you get sag readings too high at max preload then the spring rate is not high enough ( soft). If you cannot get to the lower figure with no preload then the spring rate is too high( stiff)




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preynol1 - thanks for your response. I think it would be useful to have as many riders comment as possible and thereby thrash this out so that we could all understand. That said, I regret to say that you have indeed added to the confusion as a number of your comments are quite incorrect. I will deal with each point one at a time . . . . .

1. "This is my take on it" - I agree with your comments about setting up sag and the principles involved, however, my 2015 manual does not give rider sag - what it does state is the negative spring displacement and the two are NOT the same thing. The latter is the difference between the static and rider sag measurements and is specified as 10 - 15mm front and 8 - 12mm rear. Unfortunately, as preload is added - the NSD remains the same even though rider sag as per your correct definition will indeed clearly change. Either you have an earlier model of S1K for which the manual states the required rider sag or you simply haven't read the manual. If the former, I would be grateful if you would post exactly what your manual says as I would be tempted to apply these measurements to my bike. The ONLY time the NSD value will change with increased preload would be if so much preload is added that the spring force is greater than the applied mass of the standalone motorcycle and certainly for the front forks of the 2015 model, it is not possible to dial in this much preload and even with max preload, there is still a measurable static sag which is less than full fork extension.

2. "Spring Rate" - I agree with your definition, however, your illustration is all to pot. If an 80KG rider sits on the bike, the springs will not compress 8mm. This is for several reasons
a. The rider's mass is split between front and back wheels. I weighed my 2015 with a full tank of fuel and found it weighed 107kgs at the front wheel and 97Kgs at the rear. When seated on the bike, approximately 75% of my body mass is over the rear wheel and 25% over the front. Thus, if an 80KG rider sits on the bike, only 20Kgs goes onto the front forks of which . . . . there are two!! As it happens, they are different spring rates on the 2015 but let's not go there - we will assume 10 NEWTONS per millimetre (please not, spring rate is not 10KGs/mm -it is 10Newtons/mm - 1KG = 9.81Newtons!!!!!) So . . . . . only 10kgs of an 80KG rider is applied to each fork - not 80!! Given a spring rate of roughly 1kg/mm (which is more keeping with reality than 10KGs), each fork will compress approximately 10mm beyond the static sag and in this case, the NSD value would be 10mm. The manual calls for 10 - 15mm but the crazy thing is, increasing preload WILL NOT change this value - period!!!
b. The other incorrect assumption you make is that rider mass is applied directly to the springs . . . .it isn't - just consider the front forks. If we assume they have an arbitrary rake angle of 20 degrees from the vertical, then for each 10KG of additional rider mass added to the forks, the amount transferred to the spring and through its line of travel would be 10kg x Cosine 20 = 9.4KGs. The calculation for the rear is even more complicated as there is a significant moment applied to the rear spring via the rear wheel and swinging arm and to calculate the relationship is well beyond the scope of this discussion

You now go on to state that "if you added 8mm of preload the suspension should not compress when the 80 KG rider sits on the bike as the load has been added already by the preload" OK - first off and following the above, clearly your computations are miles out but we will ignore that as we are more interested in the principle. If 8mm of preload is added, the suspension will simply extend accordingly and thereby reduce the static sag and as long as there is some measurable static sag, when the rider is seated, the spring will compress exactly the same amount as before the extra preload was added and thus Static sag will have changed, rider sag will have changed but the "all important" NSD will remain identical.

You then state that " the manual gives an ideal sag of 8mm for an 80KG rider at zero preload" . . . . it doesn't - it states a negative spring displacement value for an 85KG rider. Negative Spring Displacement IS NOT rider sag.
You say that a "110kg rider will need 2mm additional preload to achieve the same sag" - although the principle is correct in that I believe we should be aiming to adjust the suspension to give an acceptable, constant or indeed specified RIDER SAG, your computations are a million miles from reality when it comes to how much extra preload is needed for the extra rider weight. Anyway, the point is - the manual does NOT specify rider sag which is what most of your argument centres around and in principle, you are correct and I agree with you but I urge you to read your manual and let us know what it says if indeed, it is different from my confusing and incorrect 2015 manual which calls for an adjustment to preload to give a specified but unachievable Negative Spring Displacement which is and . .. . . . I say again NOT RIDER SAG!!! :)
 
Bit harsh, my comments are simplified as I believe it is a simple subject which is made overly complicated by the user.

Hence it is referred to as a black art!

Can you explain NSD is this the negative force in hookes law? Or just compression or sag?

I?ve only ever read or heard of the terms sag or compression being used when adjusting preload.

Your right a springs rate of compression is measured in force per mm, but this is not easy to relate to a rider, which is why I chose to use KG per mm in my examples.
In my examples I tried to show that when you compress a spring the amount of load or force required to compress it further stays the same. Due to a Constant Spring rate.
Unless you have progressive springs.



Do you agree that we adjust SAG to maximise the travel available for the wheel in either direction. Up or down?

I have a gen 3 with DDC ( DDC or not is only relevant in you need the ignition on to adjust sag), and use the pic for the forks adjustment in the manual.
ff4d2ff3c5a5afcb210707e3640c9cfa.png


This is rider sag. As it is the difference between the suspension available travel with only the bikes weight ( static sag) and the available travel with the rider on board. Rider sag.

It is the length in mm the spring is compressed when a rider sits on the bike. Irrelevant of you measure his weight in converted Newton?s or KG.

You simply turn the preload adjuster to get the desired measurement.

If you can?t than the spring is it correct for you.

YouTube have many videos on the subject from Leiden code to MCN to Dave Moss.

Sag is simple it?s damping that is subjective and complex.





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Hi preynol1, thanks for your reply. Please accept my apology if my post caused offence - it was unintended as I was just attempting to point out where your information was incorrect. Thanks very much for the page from your manual and it does help at least explain some, if not all of the confusion. I am intrigued to note that your booklet is different from mine - a UK bike purchased in May 2015. That said, the instructions are actually the same but the wording is a little different and where your manual refers to "compressing front wheel", mine and others refer to "negative spring displacement - see attached.
First of all, let me say that I agree with your fundamental premise - preload should be adjusted to give sufficient suspension travel both up and down. Logic suggests that the suspension preload should be adjusted so that the bike will settle with the same rider sag (or suspension position) as that of another S1k with a rider of a different weight - to me, that is a given and hence the confusion over the instructions in the manual.
From your last post, I think your understanding of rider sag is confused and incorrect as what you have defined as rider sag (ie "the difference between the suspension available travel with only the bike's weight and the available travel with the rider on board") is actually the NEGATIVE SPRING DISPLACEMENT and I can state with total confidence that you can dial in additional preload until the cows come home and this value will not change. What will change is the static sag and rider sag BUT the difference between these readings, the NSD will remain constant.
By way of clarification and my understanding of it, static sag is essentially irrelevant but involves measuring the length of the fork leg with the bike and wheels held off the ground (ie forks fully extended) and then subtracting the reading obtained with the riderless bike when upright on its wheels. Rider sag is obtained by measuring the difference , again between the fully exended fork leg and the length when the bike is upright on its wheels but this time with the rider on board. If BMW gave this measurement in the manual, it would solve all the confusion. Better still would be if the manual simply stated . . " sit on the bike and measure D. Adjust preload to give a value of xmm when you (and passenger where applicable)are sitting on the bike." Instead, we get all this bollox about negative spring displacement which is clearly wrong. It would seem BMW have rewritten the manual to clear up the confusion but still haven't got it right!!!!!
Re Dave Moss and others - a remarkable lot of hot air which when you listen carefully, they actually say very little indeed which is useful - I've watched them all.
You say in your post "you simply turn the preload adjuster to get the desired measurement" but the question is WHAT MEASUREMENT? If the wretched manual gave a rider sag to aim for (which neither yours or mine does) or better still, a single measurement of D with rider aboard, that would be great but. . . . it doesn't. What it does give is a value for "negative spring displacement" which in your manual is referred to as "Compressing front wheel" (whatever that means!) but this figure is not adjustable and stays the same regardless of how much preload is added.
As you say Sag should be simple and would be if only we had the correct instructions in the manual

Dammit - have scanned my manual as a jpg but the only option for a picture that I can see uses a URL - how do I get the page from my manual uploaded??
 
Re: Sag

RyS1000RR - I agree. All we need is a measurement for Rider Sag and it can be dialled straight in. The problem is, the manual for the 2015 gives no such reading, just a value for Negative Spring Displacement which is unadjustable and doesn't change with preload.
 
Re: Sag

RyS1000RR - I agree. All we need is a measurement for Rider Sag and it can be dialled straight in. The problem is, the manual for the 2015 gives no such reading, just a value for Negative Spring Displacement which is unadjustable and doesn't change with preload.

Right! So the whole User Manual about Preload is useless without the correct numbers for the NSD
 
NSD compression and sag are different words to describe the same thing. The amount a spring is compressed when a weight or force is applied to it from its free state. Ie fully extended.
So I?m still of the option that the manual is correct but some might argue that the target figures don?t suit them.

Please google rider sag and you will get lots of pages and videos which will make it clear.








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NSD compression and sag are different words to describe the same thing. The amount a spring is compressed when a weight or force is applied to it from its free state. Ie fully extended.
So I?m still of the option that the manual is correct but some might argue that the target figures don?t suit them.

Please google rider sag and you will get lots of pages and videos which will make it clear.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

preynol1 - I fully understand. No need to google it. Negative Spring Displacemet and Rider Sag are NOT the same thing - I won't define them yet again as the definition of both has been documented above - several times. Suffice it to say, Rider Sag and static sag are adjustable by changing preload. NSD is not. It is independent of preload and is a function of rider weight and spring rates. The manual suggests changing preload to achieve the desired NSD - not possible!!
A worked example might illustrate it.
1 Raise bike clear of ground and take measurement D . . . . 120mm
2 Hold riderless bike on ground vertically with ignition turned on if DDC - D . . . . . . 95mm

The above gives a static sag of 25mm

3. Sit on bike in riding position with bike vertical and ignition on - D . . . .... 82m

The above gives a rider sag of 38mm

So, this gives a static sag of 25mm, a rider sag of 38mm but a negative spring displacement of 13mm - clearly, static sag, rider sag and NSD are absolutely not the same.

If we now dial in extra preload to give a static sag of say 20mm (ie 120mm minus a measured value D of 100mm), you WILL find that your rider sag will reduce by exactly the same amount and is now 33mm but Negative Spring Displacement will remain the same as it is the difference between the two . . . . 13mm

NSD cannot be adjusted by changing preload - the manual is wrong but I suspect has lost its meaning through inept interpretation.

Anyway, my question for anyone out there with a 2015 -2018 is what measurements did you use to set up your suspension if indeed, folks have even bothered and I suspect many haven't.
 

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