Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginners

  1. #1
    2 YEAR PREMIER MEMBER MrSmooth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Camberley
    Riding
    S1000RR 18 Blue
    Posts
    13
    Thanked: 6

    Post Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginners

    Okay, I am writing this because I found the bike manual just too difficult to understand. I am also repeating most people's advice here as not to change the ride height front and back.


    And for all us tall and weight challenged large chaps who stand in front of the mirror and see a vague resemblance to the greatest sports bike racers .... ahhemm! I am 145kg, yes a 6ft 3" fat barsteward. But the stock setup from new and out of the crate is bone shakingly hard for me too. But I needed a beginners guide to my S1000RR with EAS to help set it up for me


    Here's a link www.3dman.com/Tutorials/suspensions.htm for something that my son says is easy to comprehend (he who has a degree in Motorcycle and Motor Sport Engineering - but do you think I could get more than 10 minutes of his time on this? ....)


    We start by making measurements before and after Spring Preload changes to the bike, then ride the bike and make more changes using the on-board DDC electronics.


    FIRST - use your camera to take a picture of the front (Right hand fork top) and rear Spring Preload black Adjuster nut (same size and colour nut above the rear swingarm) before you made any changes. Make sure you can count the number of threads showing from a side angle of the bolts in your photographs.


    We start with measuring the Sag with the bike as per factory settings
    1. Take two long cable ties and strap them firmly around the top of the forks where the fork tubes disappear into the slider. As you sit on the bike the cable ties will slide down the fork tubes and we are going to measure that movement as a distance travelled from the edge of the slider
    2. Turn on the ignition very important
    3. Stand the bike upright with no weight on the suspension, with a long ruler or equivalent (you can even use a plain stick) measure the bike at the pillion foot pegs between the floor and the same point on each pillion foot peg on each side
    4. Sit on the bike, get someone to firmly hold the bike upright so that you can get both feet on the foot pegs, and assume your normal riding position. Start the Engine and read page 71 of the manual
    5. Put your feet down lightly and support the bike, get your colleague to now measure the distance from the floor to the pillion foot pegs - the difference between the two recordings is the rear sag.
    6. Get off the bike, sit the bike on the side-stand. Turn off the engine leave the ignition on.
    7. Measure the Sag at the front (the new distance travelled from the slider to the top of the cable tie as it has moved down the fork tube)
    8. Turn off the ignition
    9. Record the front and rear Sag - firstly this is our base or 'stock' setting - You are aiming for a sag of 10-15mm on the front forks and 8-12 mm at the rear of the bike


    Use the tool in the bike's tool kit to wind the Preload Adjuster nut on the front and back Clockwise (to stiffen the suspension) or out or anti-clockwise (to soften the setting - to give you more sag if you are a lighter weight than me)


    Repeat steps 1-9 above after making the adjustment - until you get the desired sag readings (10-15mm front and 8-12mm rear sag) - when you reach the desired Sag - remove the cable ties on the front forks


    Now - we have to recalibrate the bike Ride Height Sensor BEFORE you ride anywhere - go to page 111 on the Rider's Manual 06.2016 1st Edition, 01 and try and decipher it...
    a. Turn on the bike ignition
    b. Put the bike into Sport Mode and navigate to the DDC Setup Menu
    b. Follow the DDC Setup instructions to calibrate the bike Ride Height Sensor first (page 118) -
    c. Exit the menus.
    d. Turn off the bike
    e. Go ride the bike in Sport Mode having first read the guide at http://www.3dman.com/Tutorials/suspensions.htm and decide how you want to soften or harden your ride with the DDC electronics - don't worry, you can reset everything to factory settings if you go the wrong way. BTW most of my settings are -1 to -3 and I am now getting closer to a smoother ride.


    Please feel free to amend this post


    Mr Smooth (aka Steve)

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to MrSmooth For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Standard Member Zxcv12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    214
    Thanked: 55

    Re: Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginne

    I feel your pain Mr Smooth, it’s all far too much like hard work to engage with the technicalities of the interface, I have no patience with ‘menus’ that always seem to frustrate. However, I’m 5’11’’, around 93kg wet, possibly 110 suited up, and the S1 seems spot on for me from the factory in terms of sag/compression/rebound. Sport on the road is absolutely fine, race on the track is ace too. I can’t fault it. What are you trying to achieve here? I can’t believe that it’s ‘bone shaking key hard’ unless there’s a fault somewhere? Mine is very plush, but firm when you need it. What kind of riding are you doing??

  4. #3
    2 YEAR PREMIER MEMBER MrSmooth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Camberley
    Riding
    S1000RR 18 Blue
    Posts
    13
    Thanked: 6

    Re: Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginne

    Zxcv12 - I've only done 500 miles so far, I am finding that the bike is really uncomfortable on rough A and B roads, the frequency of the bumps at national speed limit 60-70 mph are really jarring to me. Smooth A and B roads or dual carriageways are absolutely fine, but the slightest uneven road surfaces where road repairs have been made etc are just doing me in - I ride in Hants, Berks and Surrey. The roads surfaces are not great and I want to gain more confidence and relax a little more. The changes I have made are making a difference, I am determined to keep making more DDC setup changes to get the suspension to work for me a little more. It is rebound and compression damping I am trying to adjust. I had to stiffen the preload as I had 28mm of Sag in the front and 18mm in the rear as delivered.
    Last edited by MrSmooth; 25th May 2018 at 05:06 PM.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to MrSmooth For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Standard Member Zxcv12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    214
    Thanked: 55

    Re: Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginne

    Quote Originally Posted by Zxcv12 View Post
    I feel your pain Mr Smooth, it’s all far too much like hard work to engage with the technicalities of the interface, I have no patience with ‘menus’ that always seem to frustrate. However, I’m 5’11’’, around 93kg wet, possibly 110 suited up, and the S1 seems spot on for me from the factory in terms of sag/compression/rebound. Sport on the road is absolutely fine, race on the track is ace too. I can’t fault it. What are you trying to achieve here? I can’t believe that it’s ‘bone shaking key hard’ unless there’s a fault somewhere? Mine is very plush, but firm when you need it. What kind of riding are you doing??
    just to clarify, I don’t understand how it can be set up too hard from stock for your weight, I’m much lighter, it’s fine. I’d have thought from your weight it could only be too soft and bouncy, not rock hard, something is wrong here!

  7. #5
    2 YEAR PREMIER MEMBER MrSmooth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Camberley
    Riding
    S1000RR 18 Blue
    Posts
    13
    Thanked: 6

    Re: Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginne

    I wouldn't describe myself as a fast rider, we will see. It gets the first oil change next month, I'll ask that they have ride to check that it isn't too stiff for them. I have a riding buddy who is about 80kg with a 2016 S1000R without EAS with stock settings and he thinks it is a harsh ride on the same roads too.

  8. #6
    Standard Member Zxcv12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    214
    Thanked: 55

    Re: Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginne

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmooth View Post
    Zxcv12 - I've only done 500 miles so far, I am finding that the bike is really uncomfortable on rough A and B roads, the frequency of the bumps at national speed limit 60-70 mph are really jarring to me. Smooth A and B roads or dual carriageways are absolutely fine, but the slightest uneven road surfaces where road repairs have been made etc are just doing me in - I ride in Hants, Berks and Surrey. The roads surfaces are not great and I want to gain more confidence and relax a little more. The changes I have made are making a difference, I am determined to keep making more DDC setup changes to get the suspension to work for me a little more.
    Ah ok, well yes Surrey roads are shite, I’m there all the time! You’ll need a lot more time on the bike before considering suspension changes imo. A little lift on the legs over bumps (you are reading the road, right?) will help the bike cope. But, it’s a road legal race bike. Suck it up and use it for what it’s designed for or buy a GS!

  9. #7
    Forum Admin soofsayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    York
    Posts
    5,429
    Thanked: 1797

    Re: Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginne

    Hi mr smooth.

    I got really confused reading your first post, I think the problem here is too much information from multiple sources. Setting the static sag on the bike is fairly straight forward as per the manual and takes a few minutes. You need to ensure you recalibrate the ddc once you have made any adjustments. Have you followed the steps in the manual, i.e. measure the sag with the ignition on etc?

    Have you put a cable tie on one of your front forks to see how much travel the suspension is using? You may be bottoming out due to the settings/weight or getting no travel if the ddc is not working.

    Either way the ride should not be bone jarring if the static has been set correctly and the ddc is working correctly.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to soofsayer For This Useful Post:

    Oli

  11. #8
    Forum Moderator RyS1000RR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,115
    Thanked: 1128

    Sag

    Quote Originally Posted by soofsayer View Post
    Setting the static sag on the bike is fairly straight forward as per the manual and takes a few minutes.
    +1.

  12. #9
    Standard Member Alex87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 3

    Re: Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginne

    Okay, this whole debate about preload confuses me...

    Sag in the Front should be between 10mm and 15mm with a drivers weight of 85kg.

    But how can I set the correct sag (im at 20mm now) if the springs doenst get stiffer with the changing preload (thats how i understood it)? Meaning they still require the same force - lets say 10kg force for a 1mm travel but we just can change the geometry of the bike. So how can I get the correct sag with the OEM springs?

  13. #10
    Standard Member Javaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    7
    Thanked: 5

    Re: Preload, Sag and EAS DDC Sport setup 2018 - an easier How to guide for us beginne

    Alex87 is asking the right questions. I'm afraid this post is somewhat misleading but understandably so because the manual is BS on this subject.
    increasing or decreasing spring preload does not make the suspension stiffer or softer as spring rates are unchanged. All you are doing by increasing preload is compressing the springs prior to applying your body weight. This has the effect of increasing the ride height of the bike prior to sitting on it so that when you do so, it settles back down in the correct position and affords you the optimum geometry and suspension travel without bottoming. If your ride is too hard, the only option is softer spings (which is a no no, given your barsteward status) or softer DDC setting which I believe would be equally misguided - it is possible you are bottoming out or more likely, the suspension is simply hard because this is a sport bike and not a Parker Knoll recliner. I suspect earlier S1K bike manuals specified sags differently but the 2015 and I suspect later models too, require you to set the negative spring displacement to 10-15mm front and 8-12mm rear. Put simply, this is the amount the bike compresses when you sit on it and will be independent of preload settings. Indeed the negative spring displacement is a function of spring rates, rider mass and nothing more and thus I SUSPECT AN ERROR IN THE MANUAL DUE TO TRANSLATION. However, let's consider a worked example
    Assume a sag measurement of 500mm (arbitrary made up figure) at the rear and when your 8KG rider sits on the bike, it compresses to 490mm - NSD is 10mm as per manual. Mr Fatbarsteward now sits on the bike and measures 420mm - NSD is 80mm. The problem is, too much rear suspension travel has been used up and you are at risk of bottoming out and so you dial in more preload. You now measure sag and find that it has gone from 500mm to 570mm and the bike sitting higher. Mr FBSD now sits on the bike and sag is found to be 490mm. NSD has remained unchanged at 80mm and will do so regardless of whatever preload is dialled in as it is a function of spring rates and rider weight - nothing else. Having increased preload,you will now need to increase compression and rebound damping to compensate for the increase in sprung mass.
    Not only is the manual is wrong it is also very poorly written and highly confusing when it comes to suspension settings

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Javaman For This Useful Post:


Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •