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RickS1K

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Something been bothering me about my Gen 2 for a while, not sure what it is...

When I am riding at slow speed and accelerate I can feel a very slight movement through the handlebars, as if something has moved 1 or 2mm. And when I brake, as I come to a complete stop and release the brakes, I also feel the same kind of thing. It's been there a while, and I did think it might be the race head bearing. I mentioned it to the dealer at the last service. They charged me ?23+ VAT to tighten it (!!), and I can't really say it made much difference. In the very limited bike maintenance I've been instructed in (intro course at the now defunct Oval Motorbike Centre for anyone that's done it), I think I was told that you can check the bearing by moving the bars left to right to left with the wheel off the floor - you're checking to feel something as it centres, if I have remembered correctly - I don't feel anything when I do that.

I don't suppose this incredibly vague description means anything to anyone?
 
Are you sure it's not just the discs on the front floating about on the buttons?
 
Something been bothering me about my Gen 2 for a while, not sure what it is...

When I am riding at slow speed and accelerate I can feel a very slight movement through the handlebars, as if something has moved 1 or 2mm. And when I brake, as I come to a complete stop and release the brakes, I also feel the same kind of thing. It's been there a while, and I did think it might be the race head bearing. I mentioned it to the dealer at the last service. They charged me ?23+ VAT to tighten it (!!), and I can't really say it made much difference. In the very limited bike maintenance I've been instructed in (intro course at the now defunct Oval Motorbike Centre for anyone that's done it), I think I was told that you can check the bearing by moving the bars left to right to left with the wheel off the floor - you're checking to feel something as it centres, if I have remembered correctly - I don't feel anything when I do that.

I don't suppose this incredibly vague description means anything to anyone?

Lifting the wheel and slowly turning the steering (feeling for a notch) is the correct way to test head bearing wear. But that would cause the bike to stray and ride slightly ?off? (feels like the front end is a ball bearing or caster)

You can also determine weather they are loose by feeling how much resistance there is and how easily they fall.

From what you?ve said, considering the dealer has tightened the bearings it?s probably not that. (I?m not saying it?s not that - couldn?t possibly know without seeing it but any mechanic worth their salt could diagnose head bearing play)

When the bearings are really loose you do feel movement but it?s generally when the weight is transferred forwards and back and it has the feel of a torque wrench clicking (the lighter you are the faster you have to stop to notice it)

You also wouldn?t feel it under acceleration.

Does it feel as though accelerating ?moves? whatever it is one way and braking moves it back or can you make it happen repeatedly using only the throttle or brake?

It sounds more likely to be brake related, does it do it when you apply the front brake? Have you tried using only the rear, if so does it still do it?

Also is it when you first apply the brakes or when you are quite heavily braking?

If you try lightly applying the brake then accelerating does it do it?
 
Thanks for the responses, good to hear Matt's at FWS.

re Stephen's thoughts
"Does it feel as though accelerating ?moves? whatever it is one way and braking moves it back" My gut reaction is no, but will check (when's it's not p***ing down outside)
"or can you make it happen repeatedly using only the throttle or brake?" No

"It sounds more likely to be brake related, does it do it when you apply the front brake? Have you tried using only the rear, if so does it still do it?
Also is it when you first apply the brakes or when you are quite heavily braking? "
I don't feel it at all until the end of braking, as I come to a stop, as I release the lever - pretty sure it only happens on front brake.

If you try lightly applying the brake then accelerating does it do it? Will need to check


Just one additional thing that I thought to try. The RR is on a bursig stand, so I just tried grabbing the front brake and tried to move the wheel back and forward - I am noticing a tiny bit of play, which might well be what I am feeling in the handlebars. If we ignore the feeling under acceleration for a bit, what might cause that play in the brakes, and what can I do about it? As I mentioned before, it's something I started noticing a few months ago, long after I had replaced the OEM pads with Brembo SCs...which I have just re-checked and there is lots of life left. When I replaced the pads I cleaned the whole caliper, pistons etc.

Cheers

Rick
 
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I think the devil is in the detail here, you say you’re grabbing the front disc (on a stand) and trying to move the wheel backwards and forwards, but that’s confusing! You either have fore and aft movement in the forks, which would be a real problem, or, your grabbing the discs and feeling some play in their direction of rotation, which is normal, within reason. Which is it? The pads could also move around, but from what you’ve said, I doubt there’s a problem here!
 
It?s completely normal for the floating disks to have directional play, just a little mind. And the bobbins can wear and make it worse.

Just to clarify what you mentioned, you hear it when releasing the brake lever after heavy braking?

So it?s when releasing the brake not applying it? That?s interesting... can you hear it or is it just something felt through the bars?
 
It’s completely normal for the floating disks to have directional play, just a little mind. And the bobbins can wear and make it worse.

Just to clarify what you mentioned, you hear it when releasing the brake lever after heavy braking?

So it’s when releasing the brake not applying it? That’s interesting... can you hear it or is it just something felt through the bars?

Purely a feel in the bars, nothing heard. It never used to be there, and haven't on other bikes (and defo not on my other, 600-mile old S1KR). And yes, only happens when releasing the lever, so I don't think how hard I just braked is part of it....but will try to test over the weekend. I'll also check if there's movement in forks front and back (as per zxcv), but I think I've already checked that. The discs definitely have no movement, did have that on my old K13. Thanks for the continued ideas lads, talk soon...
 
Apart from giving the bike a good clean and polish and checking everything was tight I made no great insights over the weekend. I don't think the bike is unsafe in any way so might just wait and ask for some opinions at the the Snetterton day next week.
 
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Are you sure it's not just the discs on the front floating about on the buttons?
So..after totally forgetting to pester people about this at Snetterton the other day, I just took it down to the dealer for a chat - I wiggled the left disc (which i'd checked before posting originally) to show that it doesn't move...and the dealer wiggled the right one....which does.... Looks like you're right Zxcv12!! Dealer didn't think there was much to be done, and that it was quite common - is that the consensus here?
 
So..after totally forgetting to pester people about this at Snetterton the other day, I just took it down to the dealer for a chat - I wiggled the left disc (which i'd checked before posting originally) to show that it doesn't move...and the dealer wiggled the right one....which does.... Looks like you're right Zxcv12!! Dealer didn't think there was much to be done, and that it was quite common - is that the consensus here?
On my blue rims (same as cast) one disc moves.

- Alex
 
Update. Took the bike for its MOT last week, and .... I got an advisory on the race head bearing.... had to laugh, as that was always my suspicion...

The garage (Steve Jordan in Surrey Hills) was too busy to deal with it that day, so just back from them fixing it. They said one side had seized, but it released OK, and all looks good now. As soon as I started riding I could feel a difference when applying the brake, and I don't get the feeling I was complaining about when I come to a stop (even with that wobbly floating disc...). Happy its addressed for now, although have lingering questions about what was done to bike by the dealer last year...
 
Good outcome for now then. It is a nightmare trying to find a decent mechanic... there's not money in it so it seems, they never have any time for you as a consequence.
I assume the head race is adjustable, but I'd prefer a strip down, replace, and proper set up to an ease up with a bit of grease (if you're lucky).
Any dealer should have given you the heads up on that?
Enjoy the new anxiety free bike!
 
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