Traction control newbie question

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Nevman

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Sorry for a bit of a daft question, but my RR is the first bike I've had with TC, hence I don't trust it 100%.
So, how does it actually work? I understand that depends on the mode it less intrusive between rain, sport and race. However, does it mean that in sport mode I can (for lack of a better description) give it WOT coming out of a corner and the power delivery will be controlled in order to prevent low side but to ensure maximum acceleration?
Subsequently, does it do the same in race mode but will allow a bit of drift?

Any 'Using TC on RR for dummies' advice welcome ;)

Thanks.
 
Basically tc is literally traction control, so if the sensors detect either wheel slipping the ecu will intervene to maintain grip, by cutting drive by some extent. I dont recall all the mode differences but it is progressive. The ecu takes into account many parameters including lean, the idea being the bike feels smooth whatever you are doing. If you get to dtc slick you can fine tune the tc to react in a way that allows drift, in sport and race it is very tamed. The caveat is slick is designed for track use.
 
Basically tc is literally traction control, so if the sensors detect either wheel slipping the ecu will intervene to maintain grip, by cutting drive by some extent. I dont recall all the mode differences but it is progressive. The ecu takes into account many parameters including lean, the idea being the bike feels smooth whatever you are doing. If you get to dtc slick you can fine tune the tc to react in a way that allows drift, in sport and race it is very tamed. The caveat is slick is designed for track use.

I understand all the theory behind it, but I am asking more in practical terms. When I am coming out of the corner, can I give it full beans and TC will keep me upright or do I still need to be careful with the throttle?
 
Good luck giving it full throttle out of the corners! All you will do is unsettle the bike. Always be as smooth as you can when feeding in the throttle. If on track and with experience you can be hard on the throttle as you will have confidence in the mechanical grip from tyres and when you really push the TC will help. It's all good fun but build up slowly of 1st time.

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my RR is the first bike I've had with TC, hence I don't trust it 100%.
I never trusted mine 100% either. Build up your confidence on the bike, as other posts have said smooth is best ( I reckon you could still highside with TC).
 
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I understand all the theory behind it, but I am asking more in practical terms. When I am coming out of the corner, can I give it full beans and TC will keep me upright or do I still need to be careful with the throttle?

It all depends on what mode/TC setting you have.
If you have Race +7 the TC is pretty ?safe/intrusive?, so you can be quite ham fisted without the bike getting into too much of a pickle.
If however, you had Slick -4 or less on road and were heavy handed it would definitely slide ?excessively? before the TC would cut the fuelling.

My recommendation would be to never ride being totally reliant on the electronics, it is not good practice to just pin the throttle regardless of lean angle and let the ECU work it out.
That being said, as Simon says, if you build up gradually and experiment with the modes/TC level, your confidence in the system and feel for the ?mechanical? grip will increase, allowing you to be more aggressive/confident with corner exits.

One thing to be aware of re modes/TC level ... The DTC mode Sport/Race/Slick essentially refers to the amount of wheelie control, whilst the DTC -7 to +7 is the amount of TC sensitivity you have.
There is indeed overlap and there is a significant difference in the way that Slick DTC behaves, but it is a good way of thinking of the modes/TC levels.

Best of luck and enjoy [emoji4]
 
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There was a brilliant video demonstrating how much you *can* trust the electronics on the RR on here somewhere, but I've searched and can't find it. Basically some dude was charging through ( I assume ) some German roads full-on and the electronics kept him upright and out of the trees.

The video itself got a lot of criticism regarding road positioning and other things, but as an example of how the electronics save skin, its a pretty good vid. If someone else knows the video I'm referring to, can you please link it here - i just cannae locate it.
 
Well explained Oli, after a few months of playing I too found out all the above, I find -2 I?m slick mode a good track setting, I?ve only had my 17 plate just under the year and only do a few track days a year. This setting with slicks seems to be a great starting point. Take care guys, looking forward to the sun... Shaun


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Appreciate what you're saying there Jay, but to answer Nevman's original question, I think it's a good enough answer :) I.e. can you blindly wring the throttle coming out of a corner (no hint of skill or delicacy etc..). I honestly think it was the electronics that kept the guy from inserting himself into some pine trees.
 
Thanks for all the answers guys.
I appreciate that the throttle needs to be smoothly rolled on rather than treated as on/off switch, so no problem there.
With all your advice on board, bring on the sun so I can go on and test it with extra nappy in my pants ;)
 
Thanks for all the answers guys.
I appreciate that the throttle needs to be smoothly rolled on rather than treated as on/off switch, so no problem there.
With all your advice on board, bring on the sun so I can go on and test it with extra nappy in my pants ;)

I think you mistake the system a bit for what it is. Yes, it is a very good TC system. But on the stock ECU, safety comes first. Slip angles are setup conservative for a good reason: when BMW/Bosch was programming the TC, they had no idea on what tarmac you are going to use it, or what tire size and profile you were going to install, what suspension settings. All these uncertainties make it impossible to design a system for maximum performance.

Hence, the system is not programmed to ensure maximum acceleration, the system will always try to keep the customer alive (and preferably in good enough health to keep buying BMW stuff).

What you describe is more kind of WSBK electronics where the riders works with the electronics to maintain maximum acceleration.

If you are interested in this, it might be good practice to read the Race Calibration Kit manual, that comes with the RACE ECU. It explains a lot about how the TC works, and how you can tune it to your desire.
 
I think you mistake the system a bit for what it is. Yes, it is a very good TC system. But on the stock ECU, safety comes first. Slip angles are setup conservative for a good reason: when BMW/Bosch was programming the TC, they had no idea on what tarmac you are going to use it, or what tire size and profile you were going to install, what suspension settings. All these uncertainties make it impossible to design a system for maximum performance.

Hence, the system is not programmed to ensure maximum acceleration, the system will always try to keep the customer alive (and preferably in good enough health to keep buying BMW stuff).

What you describe is more kind of WSBK electronics where the riders works with the electronics to maintain maximum acceleration.

If you are interested in this, it might be good practice to read the Race Calibration Kit manual, that comes with the RACE ECU. It explains a lot about how the TC works, and how you can tune it to your desire.

Sounds like an interesting read. Anyone got a PDF?


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Do you have to graduate from Hogwarts to understand this wizardry?

That level of detail is irrelevant to 99% of riders. Unless you are racing and intend to make a career of it I would leave it well alone.

Btw, for the sake of accuracy on peters post, when the bikes are set up at the factory the tc IS calibrated for either standard (190) or forged rims (200) profile tyres. The tc is also programmed to work with the suspension setting being used on the bike at any given time. The only unknown is the tarmac surface.
 
That level of detail is irrelevant to 99% of riders. Unless you are racing and intend to make a career of it I would leave it well alone.

Btw, for the sake of accuracy on peters post, when the bikes are set up at the factory the tc IS calibrated for either standard (190) or forged rims (200) profile tyres. The tc is also programmed to work with the suspension setting being used on the bike at any given time. The only unknown is the tarmac surface.

Sorry but you're really missing the point. Although you are right about the tire sizes.

My point was that Bosch/BMW have to many unknown parameters to create a system for maximum performance. For example: a pirelli tire has a different profile than a Dunlop tire. This influence the slip calculation in the ECU. The programmer is not sure which brand you are using, creating a unknown parameter.

Let's say you equip the bike with sport touring tires, since you do a lot of miles. The bike estimates the amount of available grip in the ECU (in the ECU referred to as: griplevel). If your tires have a lower griplevel than estimated, the engine can send more torque to the tire than it can handle. This is another unknown parameter for the programmer.

There are probably more parameters than you could imagine, (allright, we can discuss how large the influence is) is the bike lowered, creating a different load ratio front to rear? Does the customer think a 200 size tire looks cooler? Does the customer mount a 180 tire because he had one spare?

All this customer faults should never cause an unstable system, so it is better to stay on the safe side than on the performance side.

Level of detail for 99% of the riders irrelevant? If someone asks: 'In what extent can I trust the TC?' and there is a document explaining carefully what works and what doesnt work? I would definitely advice to read it.

If you want to trust your TC, please inform yourself how it works, and what you can do to improve reliability.
 
Well I never knew how good the tc was on these bikes on my 2015 after waiting for my bike to have its 600 mile service I road home on the way along the a52 doing around 90 on a mild bend the back end swung firstly one way then the next centred itself leading me to think I had a puncture.After pulling off the carriageway and parking up all became clear they had not tightened the sump plug up which resulted in the engine oil being dumped over the back wheel.That is not how I wanted to find out how good it was trust me but it does leave me confident in its ability to look after me if I get carried away with the throttle.In saying all that it is not idiot proof there is no such think as an uncrashable bike.
 
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