braking distances

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Mutl3y

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Hi all,
when it comes to braking I tend to do all my hard braking completed in a straight line, release brakes then tip into the corner. however been reading and watching vids on trail braking and do understand that my way of braking may not be the best way but the safest way for me on track (no tucking the front end).
my question is, new bike on track the RR, stick with what I know and do, or try trail brake gradually getting longer into the corner. will the electronics on the RR get me out of the crap if I'm a bit too late releasing the brakes? will the ABS interfere with braking distance?
I know its all subjective but I have never been above 140 breaking into any corner so will that extra 30mph+ be an extra 50 meters or more earlier? (just been looking at vids of Almeria and the long straight into the right hander)

thanks in advance
Mut
 
Only way to master braking successfully is to pick out a braking marker. Then when you use it time after time approaching at the same speed you will know to push it further a little at a time until you get comfortable.... Almeria back straight has an access road on the left towards the end, on a thou that's about the latest for breaking (from 170+) before you need to clean yr leathers and yr seat :encouragement: No brownie points for entering the caf? on yr bike lol
 
lol cheers Bananaman,
i'll try and stay out the caf? especially with the bike :crash_smilie:
have you rode Portimao ? what do you use as your marker on the start/finish straight just so I can relate to that as I know where i'm braking there on me 675
cheers
 
Braking

Hard braking is a skill that takes a long time to master and constant practice. Whenever I instruct on track I always break it down into three parts.

1. Braking Zone; where you are applying the brakes for maximum stopping power.
2. Initial Application; getting smoothly and quickly to maximum braking.
3. Trail Braking; brake release into the corner.

Before you work on initial application and trail braking, it's important to be comfortable with braking as hard as you can. This is best practiced on track at a corner where there is a lot of tarmac run-off.

Maximum braking is not a matter of pulling in the brake as hard as you can. You need to be aware of the limitations such as wheels locking; loss of traction and rear wheel lift. The BMW's electronics will help you but you want to try and always have both wheels on the ground. You'll know when you are reaching the limit as the back wheel will either hop or weave. The front end is all about feel. A key indicator that the front is close to locking is it will start to feel that it is squirming. Bumps in the track surface will also affect braking and you will have to modulate brake pressure over rougher parts of the circuit.

Hard braking is something you will need to work up to in relatively small increments. Pick a reference point, gradually applying the brakes as you normally would. When you get to what you think is your maximum braking, apply a bit more lever pressure. Pay attention to what the tyres are doing and ease off slightly if there is a problem. If your able to brake harder and find yourself with room to spare at the corner you should begin your braking at a later point the next time.

Once comfortable you can then work on initial application. Most tracks have number boards or a familiar reference point leading up to each corner. A lot of where you begin braking depends on the corner prior, and how good your previous corner exit was which will affect your speed. Many riders cheat themselves at the braking marker letting off the throttle slowly and putting their fingers on the brake well beforehand... and then grabbing the lever at the reference point. You want to transition between the throttle and getting you fingers on the lever as quickly as possible. Do not just grab the lever, but apply the brakes progressively and harder. It will also reduce the risk of locking the front wheel... and crashing. After the initial application you want to get to maximum braking as quickly as possible.

At the far end of the braking zone, the entry to the corner, you will have to gradually release the brakes as you lean the bike into the corner. Most people simply don't realise how late - and how much - you can brake with the bike at lean, arcing into a corner. It also makes it easier to steer as the front suspension is compressed changing the geometry. In many chicanes, when you are on the brakes right into the first part of the corner, you can just flip the bike onto its side. Anywhere you are off the throttle and on the brakes you will have the front end loaded and it makes changing direction easier.

Trail braking is a skill. When you can do it, and understand and feel what the front tyre is doing, lap times will fall. Finding that feeling is the hardest part, and something that you have to steadily and carefully work up to. Realistically, as the bike is tipping in, you should be getting lighter on the lever and it should be released by the apex. It is not something to work on simply by braking later and hoping for the best when you get into the corner and have to turn in on the brakes. Rather, brake at the same point, but keep the brakes on a bit longer, as you tip the bike in. Once you get the feel for what's happening and are comfortable with a certain level of trail braking, then you can move your braking marker closer to the corner. Keep working in steps, adding more braking with increased lean angle in increments.

Practice makes perfect on track but always be progressive with your braking. That and use the instructors who are normally always free to help you.
 
For me its the marshall post on the left as the road drops away on Portimao.
But the drop down does tend to pick the back tyre up off the floor!

Really quick guy there last time was on WOT till on the downhill. Then they rolled off, ?dabbed the brake and chucked it at the apex? :eek:


- Sent from Mobile
 
Mike ?Spike? Edwards does great circuit guides. Available to buy and watch online via Vimeo.


- Sent from Mobile
 
Hi all,
when it comes to braking I tend to do all my hard braking completed in a straight line, release brakes then tip into the corner. however been reading and watching vids on trail braking and do understand that my way of braking may not be the best way but the safest way for me on track (no tucking the front end).
my question is, new bike on track the RR, stick with what I know and do, or try trail brake gradually getting longer into the corner. will the electronics on the RR get me out of the crap if I'm a bit too late releasing the brakes? will the ABS interfere with braking distance?
I know its all subjective but I have never been above 140 breaking into any corner so will that extra 30mph+ be an extra 50 meters or more earlier? (just been looking at vids of Almeria and the long straight into the right hander)

thanks in advance
Mut
I’m in a similar position, been ‘experimenting’ with trail braking for a while, but not enough skill/confidence to really know how far to push it. You’ll have no problem with braking from 170+ the abs is great (for my level) and it will look after you. However, cornering abs is a feature on the 2016+ models so that’ll be an extra safety cushion. What year is it? Alas, mines a jan 2016 so no cornering abs..
braking markers will be something to now and build on over time, no point using somebody else’s, but good to know what somebody else is getting away with to get you started, just don’t aim for that slip road on your first few sessions! I’ve never felt the need to turn the abs off....
 
Portim?o

Really quick guy there last time was on WOT till on the downhill. Then they rolled off, ?dabbed the brake and chucked it at the apex? :eek:

+1. If you scrub too much speed off on the entry into Turn 1 you affect your line through Turn 2 and compromise your lap time.
 
For trail braking watch, read, MotoVudu.
What you?re doing is keeping the suspension compressed which aides turn in. However you?ve less margin for error/bumps. Its only a light drag of the brakes required to have an effect. There is more risk in trail braking.


- Sent from Mobile
 
cheers Boo,
god i'm crap a trying to write down what i'm trying to ask

Hi all,

my question is, new bike on track the RR, stick with what I know and do, or try trail brake gradually getting longer into the corner. will the electronics on the RR get me out of the crap if I'm a bit too late releasing the brakes? will the ABS interfere with braking distance?


thanks in advance
Mut

think what i'm trying to ask is
"do you get consistant braking with the ABS and traction still turned on" as on other forums and other bikes some guys remove the ABS totally or turn down the traction to minimum?" just to get consistant braking distances

think that's better

cheers Mut
 
Electronic Aids

Just leave DTC and ABS on as unless you are exceptionally quick neither will slow you down or hinder braking.
 
Great write up , its part of my track riding im weak on. Recently at alcarass there are only 2 big breaking points. I had people coming past me left and right going into turn 1 like i was stood still, i would stay with them the rest of the lap untill the last corner (another big stopping point) and by the time im on the main straight ive lost 4 or 5 seconds. My track bike has no abs (or any other electrical aids) and find it a big draw back. My main issue is banging it down the gears at the same time as the rear starts skipping (no slipper clutch). I just need to get used to the rear moving about going into and out of corners and i will cut my lap times down by "a lot"

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
As Rys said, I would leave it on for time being at least 'til you understand how/when it works and the amount of grip you have. If you turn it off, there is no backup for when you over do it, that's what it's for. If it's switched off, the only way you're gonna get to the limit is to crash.... I always think about when Ron Haslem first had the Hondas with it and was asked what he thought, " I can't beat it but Leon can" and they have improved a lot since then.
Guess what I'm saying is if you are good enough then no, if not then yes ....
 
lol cheers Bananaman,
i'll try and stay out the caf? especially with the bike :crash_smilie:
have you rode Portimao ? what do you use as your marker on the start/finish straight just so I can relate to that as I know where i'm braking there on me 675
cheers
https://imgur.com/a/W9Ks1

I'll leave it to you lol !
W9Ks1
 
thanks for all the replies fellas,
not sure if I will convert yet to a complete trackbike , so do I need to change the pads for the 4 days or are the oem pads sufficient for my pace?
cheers
Mut
 
Depends on the track. I did 3 days at Jerez and 3 at Almeria on the stock items.

I would make sure the bike is protected for lowsides. Full GB racing engine cover set and racing frame sliders, low profile.

After that, just get it out there, use some decent tyres and you won?t brake as much ;)


- Sent from Mobile
 
OEM Brake Pads

The OEM brake pads are very good. Just make sure you check the pad thickness before you go and you should be fine.
 
cheers guys,
just done over a 1000 mile, just under 6 months old, just ordered my GB covers, swing arm and fork protectors, hoping they aint gonna be used :)
canny wait now, just 2 months to go
Mut
 
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